Further proof that the market wards are a festival of failure.

the wards are just bad, actually. They should be done away with. Say I have..2 types of ore, some harvested stuff and a few pieces of armor. With the current system and limited number of retainers, I can only sell in 2 wards at once. What does this mean? This means that I will have to pay extra tax on 1 retainer just to sell my Vintage robe because that retainer is also selling 3 stacks of cotton bolls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mack

Or, you know, you can run up to the cashier and ask them where the loaf of bread is so they can mark the box for you :P.

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Well, when you say it like that... I don't see what the problem is with the Market Wards anymore. =P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

Unfortunately, there is not one inch of free realistate in the masons ward to summon my retainer. My only option now is to pay a huge tax on my sales by summoning my retainer in another ward.

If there is no room to summon a retainer now in the correct ward, what is it going to be like when/if they release a PS3 version of the game?

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it's going to be like it was at CE release. We've been there/done that but without a search function.

To play Devil's Advocate:

1) it would probably help if everyone wasn't trying to cram into Ul'dah (and presumably Ishgard in the future)
2) while it was a pain in the butt when the wards were constantly crashing and wiping retainers, now that this no longer happens (the wiping, not the crashing LOL) there are more "dead" retainers than ever before. People don't remove their retainers before they take a break or quit the game.

While I would love the convenience of an Aion-style AH, the reality is that SE is probably hanging onto the wards to support the retainer system. It's likely they are banking on charging people with poor inventory management skills for extra retainers when they finally start charging us. If they scrap the wards, they may scrap the idea of extra retainers too.

my 2 cents.

Agreed with OP, on my server, the ward I usually need to place my retainers in are always full after the wards inevitably crash which is another issue I wish they would fix. I go through all that trouble to FINALLY get my retainer in the ward and then it crashes... Yay!

Maybe this could be an event for Summer... the Failure Festival... miquetes(sp) get itty bitty tiny weeny bikinies... "We have failed you so to celebrate, here ya go!"

Market wards failed because they designed the system first to hinder RMT and second to serve as an economic system.

I'd rather see SE deal with RMT by selling gil themselves. Then design a market system that serves the needs of the players and forget about RMT.

listen..

anyone in defense to the market ward system for the love of the good god please explain to me how it's ANY different than an auction house, except for the fact that it's a massive inconvenience to sell or buy an item as so many unnecessary steps are required in order to accomplish simple tasks.

Why not just have a new UI, keep EVERYTHING exactly the same, just cut out the part where we zone into wards, go through a slow and complicated NPC ui just to list items or buy. I just don't understand the need for all of this.,...

Keep the wards for people who want to stand there and sell items without listing. (sort of like in ffxi - Battalia downs or wherever on your server people stood and sold high priced items in bazaar to avoid tax)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bunbury

Market wards failed because they designed the system first to hinder RMT and second to serve as an economic system.

I'd rather see SE deal with RMT by selling gil themselves. Then design a market system that serves the needs of the players and forget about RMT.

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short answer: no
For a much longer, rage-tastic answer, let me know if you're ready for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dyne

The point is give everyone 100 slot bazaar on the retainer, and most people can do with 1 retainer. Give global search and everyone can place their retainer anywhere in any city.

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Hi All,

I see the pros and cons of both systems, but I wanted to ask everyone:

* If SE gave everyone 100 Slots to Sell Items with (per Player), how do you prevent the inevitable "spam" from RMT / Botters who flood an Item Category?

For example, with 100 Slots, 1 RMT / Botter could just:

* IRON ORE *
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
(repeated for 100 Slots)

And then maybe, your item at a fair price gets listed below those 100 Slots. Or if you're unlucky and a 2nd RMT / Botter is selling at 100g also, yours get listed in the list 200+ items below.

And then see the same thing for any other type of item the RMT Corporation wants to control?

Thanks.

The market wards suck. That is all I feel like adding to this thread.

Woot! and you say they aren't fixing it, pfft, see that's why they crash in the first place so they make room for new retainers...its in the design.

I don't understand why we have 2 retainers with small storage/sale space instead of 1 retainer with larger storage/sale space.

What I do understand is that you can use two retainers to set up in 2 different wards to lower taxes, but...

...gil inflow is already too high. We need those taxes to take more gil out of the game anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi All,

I see the pros and cons of both systems, but I wanted to ask everyone:

* If SE gave everyone 100 Slots to Sell Items with (per Player), how do you prevent the inevitable "spam" from RMT / Botters who flood an Item Category?

For example, with 100 Slots, 1 RMT / Botter could just:

* IRON ORE *
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
aabjhj 99x 100g
(repeated for 100 Slots)

And then maybe, your item at a fair price gets listed below those 100 Slots. Or if you're unlucky and a 2nd RMT / Botter is selling at 100g also, yours get listed in the list 200+ items below.

And then see the same thing for any other type of item the RMT Corporation wants to control?

Thanks.

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FYI, you can do that right now in the current system due to being able to get as many alts (and therefore, as many retainers) as you want for free.

Since the scenario you describe does not occur now, it is unlikely that it will occur if we had more selling slots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I don't understand why we have 2 retainers with small storage/sale space instead of 1 retainer with larger storage/sale space.

What I do understand is that you can use two retainers to set up in 2 different wards to lower taxes, but...

...gil inflow is already too high. We need those taxes to take more gil out of the game anyways.

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gil flow isn't high when no one is buying anything....

To sum this thread up.... Either have us purchase the item at the menu screen or make the wards MUCH bigger and more well organized....
At no point should we EVER have to bid on anything.... Fuck Ebay
Add HQ items to the search....
Add a mail/delivery system

and then /thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

FYI, you can do that right now in the current system due to being able to get as many alts (and therefore, as many retainers) as you want for free.

Since the scenario you describe does not occur now, it is unlikely that it will occur if we had more selling slots.

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Hi Renta,

Actually it does happen with some items already. 2 days ago, we had Iron Nuggets up to "45" selling slots (of course only the top 20 were displayed). And the first 10 were some random jibberish name for a Retainer selling them at dirt cheap prices. The 2nd 10 Slots were another retainer selling them for 200 gil more. I couldn't see anything beyond that.

It's not happening everywhere, but I'm just curious / asking everyone if they had solutions for situations like this? Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dubont

short answer: no
For a much longer, rage-tastic answer, let me know if you're ready for it.

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Please feel free to hit me with the much longer, rage-tastic version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

It's not happening everywhere, but I'm just curious / asking everyone if they had solutions for situations like this? Thanks.

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Ban the bots and lessen the dependance on SP gain through grinding mats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Yea... but I don't want to bid on anything... I just wanna buy the stuff

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I really just don't want a bidding auction...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

To sum this thread up.... Either have us purchase the item at the menu screen or make the wards MUCH bigger and more well organized....
At no point should we EVER have to bid on anything.... Fuck Ebay
Add HQ items to the search....
Add a mail/delivery system

and then /thread

---

I don't think you understand the concept of an auction house. You aren't actually bidding. It's simply the name given to the system.

Limits in rows/dens/etc. is pretty much the reason why the wards will fail in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Renta,

Actually it does happen with some items already. 2 days ago, we had Iron Nuggets up to "45" selling slots (of course only the top 20 were displayed). And the first 10 were some random jibberish name for a Retainer selling them at dirt cheap prices. The 2nd 10 Slots were another retainer selling them for 200 gil more. I couldn't see anything beyond that.

It's not happening everywhere, but I'm just curious / asking everyone if they had solutions for situations like this? Thanks.

---

haha, on my server theres 41 crab bows in the wards, only the top 20 show which are just dirt cheap NQs.

By OP, page 1. "Rawr! I hate the wards! Everyone hates the wards! They're Doomed! It must go!"

Page 5... "No no, I'm not saying the MWs are terrible, I'm just saying something needs to change"

Like many people who come onto the forums. It starts as a rage. Whatever isnt working is assumed it will never work good, can't be fixed and only a total remodel, remake, redesign will do to please them.

There isn't anything in this game that is working so badly that it needs to be taken out completely. Battle Regimen, Leves, Market Wards....everything has the potential of becoming better than it currently is and probably will be.

I was speaking to a new member of my LS, telling him all the things that have changed and things that are changing. He was shocked saying something along the lines of "they're changing XIV so much I wonder how it will stay unique". The first thing I mentioned in response to this was something like "Well we still have the Armory system and that's unique"

Thinking now about that conversation, I also remember people raging about the Armory system, that its a total failure, that it needs to change completely....which is ridiculous....just like completely removing the unique Market Wards and Retainers system and replacing it with the same old AH system.


My suggestion to improve the MW system is that they need to some how link them together. Right now, almost everyone on our server is selling their goods primarily in Uldah. To reduce congestion and increase population in other cities, a link to all cities MWs would allow players to sell with their retainer in any town and anyone could shop efficiently in any town.

So for example lets say a retainer exists in Limsa and I'm shopping in Uldah. Instead of going to that retainer, perhaps if they implement a mail system, that retainer can send the item to me in the mail for a small extra charge.

They'll probably give us the our Auction Houses when they fix the problems with the server.

The people that play the game want an AH. Ask anyone in game.

SE should do one and drop the market wards sooner rather than later.

Its not just awkward and annoying and time consuming, with the lack of HQ item
visibility its also not fit for purpose.

I would rather see an AH put in before any more combat/class revamps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SomniOmnis

The people that play the game want an AH. Ask anyone in game.

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While I would not pretend to know who has majority, you cannot say this 100%. I play the game, and I still do not want an AH. However I'm not against improvements to the wards.

Yep...I have hated and still hate the market wards. And festival of failure is now in my vocabulary and its not going anywhere soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xandre

I don't think you understand the concept of an auction house. You aren't actually bidding. It's simply the name given to the system.

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Some in-game auction houses do use bidding. The problem is that "Auction House" is a stupid name for a counter where you buy things. The phrase "auction house" has an actual meaning and it just confuses the conversation. Some people have played games where "Auction Houses" have auctions only. Some people have played games where "Auctions Houses" are just a Stuff for Sale Counter, and other people have never played either type of game and, for some odd reason, assume that when people scream "i want an auction house"...that auctions are involved...

If you want to just buy stuff from a single window...why don't you say:

"I'd like to be able to buy directly from the Item Search Counter."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xandre

I don't think you understand the concept of an auction house. You aren't actually bidding. It's simply the name given to the system.

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I know...
Thats what I'm saying.. I don't mind an AH as long as it's not the "bidding model" of an AH....
There are indeed AH models where you do bid and I just don't wanna see it...
How did you catch my subliminal messages though?

I do not want auctions. I have no problems with the time and convinence that most MMO's market systems have and feel they can be implemented into the Marketwards without implementing the arbitrary Timed or Blind biding systems which are
1. More time consuming then market wards
2. Easily manipulated by RMT
3. Full of Greed and Fail

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SomniOmnis

The people that play the game want an AH. Ask anyone in game.

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No they don't, They want an easier time and convenience model and keep using words that have too much baggage as a way to easily say what they want.

On the other hand those of us claiming to not want said words with said baggage do not want the baggage. We would all embrace the time and convenience benefits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neptune

It's not that they couldn't still have market wards. And it's not that an auction house wouldn't be terrible. They just need to make something work, and right now it ain't working. I kind of favor the market ward system but a wow cloned auction house in their own UI would probably be best.

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[QUOTE=Cairdeas;180606]I do not want auctions. I have no problems with the time and convinence that most MMO's market systems have and feel they can be implemented into the Marketwards without implementing the arbitrary Timed or Blind biding systems which are
1. More time consuming then market wards
2. Easily manipulated by RMT
3. Full of Greed and Fail
Thats wow's ah system!

Wow style aution house? I and alot of other's that play XIV are XI fans NOT wow fans.

I dont want the style of ah that is used by wow at all, I think most that say AH mean
FFXI's auction house not wow's and if you played xi you know there is a difference.

HOW about XI style auction house, ppl must have never played XI it had an completely functional ah, mail system and player housing/mog house all of which didnt crash every other day......

This game ffxiv if anything should follow in its brothers footseps not a game from a different company...

Also if the wards are so iffy now(they have stated the issues with server lag effecting wards) imagine if they actually think they are gonna have a influx of new players, imagine then the server lag issues when wards are stuffed from door to door with so many stupid retainers itta make your head spin. How will that be fixed? Cairdeas
Multiple numbered wards in each town making it way more inconvenint then it already is?

A FFXI style Auction house/mail system just makes too much sense i guess, what is wrong with ppl the wards are just sooooo inconvenint.... =/

FFXI AH simple straight forward no bidding you go buy and get outa your mailbox

>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfDk44X2HoY<<
This is FF style AH this would be great in XIV!

WoW AH full of trick and cheats.!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G32GnQb4G70

Blind bidding (FFXI) was horribly takenover by RMT's even after they banned 8k of them a month. No thanks.

And no, I don't want WoW's system either.

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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You're not being serious right now. You're going to be KICKING people out of the Market Wards to make room for others? Why is all this complexity, overhead, and limitation necessary when you could simply not graphically render the retainers? It would be objectively better in every way.

I honestly dont see any reason to, if you wanna be in the battlecraft, have 1 retainer sell battle craft stuff, and put your other retainer selling something else, somewhere else.

I mean with the search feature does it honestly matter?

Though increasing the amount of allowed Retainers be nice XD

OR you could just do what I do and use mules/buddys, i have 3 retainers up in shards tho only 2 sell. one is just incase haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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Has the Dev team considered this type of system yet Bayohne?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Market-Wards.

Does this mean they're planning on keeping the system as it is? I seriously hope it's just a temporary fix...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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Hmm, seems like a band-aid fix. Scrapping the NPC retainers for now and just having the buying/selling interface just be done through menus like the item search menu would be most prudent, I think.

It would lower a significant amount of the server strain, no?

Then, at a later date when the server and game engine optimizations are up to speed, reintroduce the NPC retainers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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Tell them to dump the MWs already and stop wasting their time with it. I hope if it stays it gets bashed to hell when the PS3 reviews surface because maybe that's the only way they'll learn. Make it counter top and stop with all the limitations or at the very least tell us what other plans you have for retainers, maybe then the MWs would be a good compromise, although I doubt it because if that was the case you guys would have said something already...its clear the plan is to keep the MWs so you can charge for extra retainers in the future. Its a stupid idea and I hope it slaps SE right in the face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mack

Tell them to dump the MWs already and stop wasting their time with it. I hope if it stays it gets bashed to hell when the PS3 reviews surface because maybe that's the only way they'll learn. Make it counter top and stop with all the limitations or at the very least tell us what other plans you have for retainers, maybe then the MWs would be a good compromise, although I doubt it because if that was the case you guys would have said something already...its clear the plan is to keep the MWs so you can charge for extra retainers in the future. Its a stupid idea and I hope it slaps SE right in the face.

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It already has slapped them in the face and continues to do so, but they're being extremely stubborn about it. Among the top 5 complaints about FFXIV at start was how bad MW was. It's STILL among the top 5 complaints that I hear from anyone that I try to bring into the game. They put so much effort into it, but they only made it stupidly complex and WORSE at performing its primary function (that is, trading items) than a counter/window/text/AH/whatever-you-want-to-call-it based system.

I swear to god they don't actually take the time to analyze anything that they put in the game, they just throw in a bunch of band-aid fixes and more abstractions in hopes that it will confuse people enough into thinking it's a good feature.

Let us buy/sell things through a market ward menu.

Put a few areas where you can prompt the market menu through-out the cities to keep people from clustering in one spot.