Some Food For Thought (While you wait for the game to improve.)

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Originally Posted by Alastor

And without wonderful modern-day conventions such as GameStop and eBay, if you bought a game and did not like it, you would be stuck with it. That argument is hardly reasonable.

Forgive me if I don't see eye to eye with you, but SE could easily have not dropped the fees to this game. It is only out of wanting to keep your business that they have. I'm only asking you to be a considerate customer. Is that so hard?

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Bad comparison.
This game was not givin to me i had to buy it and you cannot return pc games at gamestop.
What i dont understand is the ppl that are satisfied with this game should waste less time chasing down and calling out thoes that dont in these forums.
Instead with the thought that the game is to change eventually shouldnt the ones that like it as is be trying to get as much enjoyment out of it in its current state as they can before it changes?

Here's some food for thought for you, OP

I paid $70.00 for my game. There's a fine line between my opinion, and fact. Fact is, the company behind the product I purchased, told me it's not up to their standards and guess what... it's certainly not up to mine. FFXIV hasn't been free. I haven't been given a free product, I've been given free service for a broken product. I have absolutely every right to complain and so do many others.

You may review my post history, or take my word when I say i'm one of the patient, and positive contributors to this community. I'm patient and understanding, but I also understand why so many people are frustrated and complain, because they purchased a game that wasn't ready for consumer release, and little has been done thus far to fix it.

Lets turn this horse to glue. It would be like SE releasing a FF7 Remake that was two discs long. you go and buy the game play it then realize they only packaged 1 disc. Now you can be angry and frustrated while waiting for SE to release the second disc. *turns horse into void glue*

Well if you played the OB you would have known the game wasn't ready for release just sayin......

It sucks too because I just got an account for OB a week or two prior to release. But the game started to burn me the longer I played. Like watching a movie that starts out like crap and you say.. you know what.. maybe it will get better.. like that damned movie called Rachael Getting Married...

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Research a game before you spend $80.

I played Open Beta, I knew game's release, as with nearly every MMO, would be a WIP. I still bought the game. I'm not complaining.

That's not to say the state of the game is at all desireable.

I think this is a better analogy:

Your restaurant is advertising Chips and Salsa. You charge $5 to get in, and you can have all you want. Everyone is allowed to see into the restaurant to see what the Chips and Salsa look like, and they've even offered free samples to may others. These other people then posted their reviews, and placed videos on various websites detailing the taste and texture of the Chips and Salsa.

Despite this, many people decide to ignore much of this and proceed to shell out $5 for some chips and salsa. Upon trying the Chips and Salsa, they are disgusted and repulsed by their repugnant taste and form. And they complain, and complain, and complain and whine.. and moan unceasingly. Yet, there is a small group of people in the restaurant who knew what they were getting themselves into, set themselves up in a cushioned booth and now have every class rank 50, 1 billion gil...... I mean they have nearly all the chips and salsa to themselves. Aside from the constant wailing in the background, things are nice.

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I'm only asking you to be a considerate customer. Is that so hard?

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For many people, this is an unfathomable concept.

ok for all you guys who have been QQing about how much you spent to get the game if you add up all the money you didnt spend on subs you have more then paid off the game. if you dont belive me 12.99X9=116.91 if you paid more than this its your own fault.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Like others of said, terrible analogy.

A better one would be: you bought a meal, but it tasted like shit and wasnt even what you ordered, so the restaurant decided not to charge you.

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no, one charged you but you got a free ticket for another crappy meal...

no one said you had to eat it or stay or come back you made that choice.

If ALL the items in your resturant were free because you had not truely opened it yet and you were simplying trying to figure out how to make adjustments to your menu to reel in future business, you might value the criticisms of even the small issues a bit more. Good luck with your business.

What Eden said, also, Gamestop will NOT take ANY computer game in trade. they are too easily pirated. You'd have better luck trying to get trade in value on a rock... so that argument is useless here.

Yes some people only complain, this is very true, but many of us, like Eden mentioned, give suggestions along with our gripes. I think one of the main issues is that we don't get much information back, and the info we DO get is about a clear as mud.

This game is NOT free, there is no free trial to download, there is only the box copies which everyone has to PAY for. Those PAYING CUSTOMERS are rightfully complaining about a deficient product that has not only failed to meet expectations but has failed to come anywhere close to being as advertised.

SE has to get a bit of tough love once in a while to remind them what their customers want. You shouldn't be worried about all the complaining... you should be worried about when there isn't any... because that means everyone has given up on XIV and it's well and truly dead.

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Choosing the store = Buying FFXIV

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You chose what restaurant to walk into, the same choice you made whether or not to spend your money on FFXIV, whether the reviews were good or bad.

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Getting free chips = Getting free months

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As stated in the OP, customers got free chips with their meal as a courtesy of the restaurant. Customers of FFXIV receive an extended free trial until the game is satisfactory, as a courtesy of SE. In other words, they were courteous enough to provide these free services, they did not "have" to provide them.

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Complaining about chips = complaining about the game

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Its exactly the same thing. However, it would be better to make suggestions rather than complaints. Suggesting a less saltier chip = suggesting a less complicated crafting recipe. (many more analogies to be used with this.)

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Originally Posted by Roughgalaxy

What Eden said, also, Gamestop will NOT take ANY computer game in trade. they are too easily pirated. You'd have better luck trying to get trade in value on a rock... so that argument is useless here.

Yes some people only complain, this is very true, but many of us, like Eden mentioned, give suggestions along with our gripes. I think one of the main issues is that we don't get much information back, and the info we DO get is about a clear as mud.

This game is NOT free, there is no free trial to download, there is only the box copies which everyone has to PAY for. Those PAYING CUSTOMERS are rightfully complaining about a deficient product that has not only failed to meet expectations but has failed to come anywhere close to being as advertised.

SE has to get a bit of tough love once in a while to remind them what their customers want. You shouldn't be worried about all the complaining... you should be worried about when there isn't any... because that means everyone has given up on XIV and it's well and truly dead.

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Excellent post.

And people can whine about, "Oh, give them time, give them suggestions, not complaints!" all they want, but the thing is, we have nothing to lose by complaining/offering suggestions (No, just because you disagree with my complaints, does not mean they're not good suggestions, and yes, complaints *can* be suggestions in themselves). SE does.

This restaurant needs the business, this specific location (that is, this game, FFXIV). If they screw up, and customers don't feel it's been made right, it's their loss. They can give all the "complimentary chips" they want - if that doesn't make it up to the customer, it's the diner, and only the diner, that loses.

Ultimately, you can say all you want, "Well, be more patient!" to the customer who's been waiting nine months. But that's an attitude that's probably not going to win the customer over. That's why *SE* isn't going that route, isn't telling people, "Hey, be patient, we gave you a consolation prize, so shut it," because they know it hurts them and their reputation in the long run. And while you might be trying to help by telling people to stop complaining, walking up to people still poking at chips and salsa nine months after they didn't get the steak they were promised and telling them to "Suck it up, it's not so bad," can only hurt Square Enix and FFXIV by further pushing frustrated customers.

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Originally Posted by Alastor

And without wonderful modern-day conventions such as GameStop and eBay, if you bought a game and did not like it, you would be stuck with it. That argument is hardly reasonable.

Forgive me if I don't see eye to eye with you, but SE could easily have not dropped the fees to this game. It is only out of wanting to keep your business that they have. I'm only asking you to be a considerate customer. Is that so hard?

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You make no sense here considering the fact that you can not return, or trade in opened PC games to such "wonderful modern-day conventions" like EB, Gamestop or any retail store for that matter. SE knowingly dropped the fee out of all the player base that was left after that first month leaving the game, in a desperate attempt to keep people logged into there servers, an save face in the press. If you don't believe that then sir you are far to stubborn for me or anyone to try an change your mind. Have fun with this misdirected Loyalty you feel towards SE though.

Game you pay 50-60 bucks (forget price of collectors edition) to play in the first place is hardly free sir. No matter how u twist it. I can't even imagine them expecting people to pay a monthly fee of 13-15 dollars for a game that is essentially still stuck in last phase of Beta testing.

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PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Research a game before you spend $80.

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Well noone could believe that they POSSIBLY would ship the game in the state it was at the end of open beta.
A big launch patch was, by all standards, just a given. It took almost a week before people realized that this
patch was never to come.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Research a game before you spend $80.

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*Proud Pose*

I feel good that I bought this game for *Drum Rolls* $8.00... plus $2.50 postage...

I'm not going to go through and check if anyone else said this, BUT...

What would your restaurant do if every single person that came in for a full day ordered water and ate your chips and salsa only? They'd either close down, or change their policy. Why? Because its a gimmick to get people to come in. The cost of chips and salsa are in the costs of other foods. So don't give me that FREE crap.

Your restaurant analogy does not work in any way shape or form in this context.

And to think SE would give us free play and we should thank them out of the kindness of there hearts? Please. They are a business. Their goal is to make money. They can currently afford to have the game free or it would be ended by now. Some one somewhere in SE still thinks the game can be a profit maker or it be shutdown.

Everyone has the right to complain however they wish. That's why these forums are open. To hear opinions, suggestions and complaints from the community.

Whats worse then someone complaining?
It's the person complaining about the complaining.

This is why you should always read the thread before posting.Everything you said has already been discussed.

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Originally Posted by Taru_TwoPointO

I'm not going to go through and check if anyone else said this, BUT...

What would your restaurant do if every single person that came in for a full day ordered water and ate your chips and salsa only? They'd either close down, or change their policy. Why? Because its a gimmick to get people to come in. The cost of chips and salsa are in the costs of other foods. So don't give me that FREE crap.

Your restaurant analogy does not work in any way shape or form in this context.

And to think SE would give us free play and we should thank them out of the kindness of there hearts? Please. They are a business. Their goal is to make money. They can currently afford to have the game free or it would be ended by now. Some one somewhere in SE still thinks the game can be a profit maker or it be shutdown.

Everyone has the right to complain however they wish. That's why these forums are open. To hear opinions, suggestions and complaints from the community.

Whats worse then someone complaining?
It's the person complaining about the complaining.

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Originally Posted by Alastor

(This is not directed at everyone.)

I work at a restaurant, and before you go away, I'll make this comparison short. It is a Tex-Mex restaurant and we offer free (unlimited) chips and salsa to every guest who comes in to dine.

The most frustrating thing is to have a guest that complains about anything related to the chips and salsa. I hear things like: "The chips are too salty." "The chips are not salty enough." "The salsa is too spicy." "The salsa is not spicy enough." ect. ect.

When you are being given something for free, perhaps you should not be so picky. Obviously, the circumstances here are different. However, if you are currently playing the game, you aren't paying for anything. The developers of this game are not making any money off of you. Actually, they are pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into a game that has lost them millions to make the experience more enjoyable for you.

Whether you believe SE is fixing this game because they want a new cash cow, or whether they truly wish to give you a wonderful experience (like the one so many attest to having in FFXI), please do not be so ungrateful as to complain like children in the meantime.

Having requests, comments, and opinions on the game and its future is a completely different story. I only ask that we be more considerate. ( Though perhaps that is too much to ask of the internet >.>)

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As someone says earlier, people came to the restaurant for a dinner and got that chips and salsa for free but they are paying for the dinner.
Like in a restaurant, if the food/service is not good, you came once, you tried (maybe got free stuff in the meantime) and never going back again to that restaurant is the experience was not up to your expectations. The same happened to me with XIV. I bought the game (payed for dinner), got free months of playtime (my free salsa and chips), the experience was boring and too repetitive after a while (I had better pasta dishes in other restaurant) so I left keeping an eye on the improvements the game might see in the future (Is the restaurant improving their food/service too).
As customers, we have the right to complain about a service that is not up to ones expectations.

Here is how SE's restaurant works.

You walk in, and the restaurant's policy is that you pay for your food ahead of time with no refund. You realize that you have been sitting at your table for about 9 months waiting to get your food. Yet you are being held over by chips and salsa till your food actually arrives. Will that food be delicious and worth waiting 9 months for, or will it be cold and stale and have to take my complaints to the manager? What does the manager tell you if that is the case? "We will look into it."

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Here is how SE's restaurant works.

You walk in, and the restaurant's policy is that you pay for your food ahead of time with no refund. You realize that you have been sitting at your table for about 9 months waiting to get your food. Yet you are being held over by chips and salsa till your food actually arrives. Will that food be delicious and worth waiting 9 months for, or will it be cold and stale and have to take my complaints to the manager? What does the manager tell you if that is the case? "We will look into it."

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Oh and by the way, that entire 9 months the chips havn't had enough salt and the salsa not spicy enough (but hey in release like 1.13 they at least made the chips bigger!)

Don't forget three or four different types of chips that are as useless and bland as each other... (I'm looking at you target mode a, b and c - and probably incoming d-z ><)

the funny thing about peeps wanting them to rush them to fix it is that they rushed it when they relesed it too early.
so how would rushing them now be of any sort of help?

should they have waited a year or so to relese it... yea, but then we would bitch about it being delayed lol.

rushing things never helps, not on tests, not on cooking food, and not on games

so i hope SE u take ur time to fix this game and make it right d(`-`)

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Originally Posted by Milgwn

the funny thing about peeps wanting them to rush them to fix it is that they rushed it when they relesed it too early.
so how would rushing them now be of any sort of help?

should they have waited a year or so to relese it... yea, but then we would bitch about it being delayed lol.

rushing things never helps, not on tests, not on cooking food, and not on games

so i hope SE u take ur time to fix this game and make it right d(`-`)

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fixing stuff at a proper pace isnt rushing. By the time they get their meal ready, the customers are gone and enjoyed their meals somewhere else. Also a restaurant would just spice things up while improving their cooking, and not tell the people that simple ingredients like salt and pepper will be implemented on the meals sometimes in the future...

Simple fixes shouldnt even be mentioned. They should come in almost dayly with fast fixes. Other "restaurants" do that as well. Its not too much to ask for. By the time they get things done i might even have another online mmo on my mobile with tesselation support...

Interesting thread. My take on the analogy is that SE is closer to a fine dining restaurant than a Tex Mex restaurant. I paid $75.00 for the Collector's Edition last September, so right of the bat I'm voluntarily paying much more because I came expecting much more. When I go to a fine dining restaurant I also usually receive much better service than a casual dining restaurant. I think SE is doing a great job of treating me as a high class fine dining restaurant would treat me if I was unsatisfied. After two weeks of playing this at launch I uninstalled the game, put the game disk deep into storage never to see the light of day again, and vowed to never purchase another SE product for as long as I live. And at a fine dining establishment, they know that their class of clientele will react the same way if they spend good money on a meal and it's merely average at best. They know that they need that repeat business and that good word of mouth on the street. I came back to FF14 because I saw the strides SE is taking to get me to renew my faith in them as a company. Regardless of what happens in the end with FF14, if they continue on this path they will gain back my respect and they will earn my patronage in the future.

The restaurant analogy works, sort of.

We ordered a meal. The waiter came back and asked us some specifics about it, like how we want the meat cooked, etc. These details never made it to the chef, and our steaks came back charred on the outside but practically raw inside. We sent it back to the kitchen, and the waiter keeps bringing us chips to tide us over while he single-handledly slaughters a cow to get us new cuts of meat.

We don't know if it's the waiter's fault that the chef didn't cook the steak properly but clearly he turned up the flame and rushed it out to us, and now we have no idea what's taking so long to get our steaks and all the while people are getting impatient and going to Applebee's.

I didn't feel like sifting through all this trash, so I just read the first 10-20 posts, but I noticed a post in regards to "if you don't like what you bought, there are places like GameStop".

If you've ever in your life tried to trade in games, you would understand that you can't do it for anything that is a subscription based game, free or otherwise, and even further, they implemented a few years ago that trade-ins are no longer accepted on PC titles (FFXIV).

Oh by the way... Before you start running your mouth, I worked at EB Games for 5 years and it's owned by GameStop and has all the same rules/promotions so don't try to feed me any BS.

The people that have been playing this game since day one (Like me) have every right to complain. This game has taken far too long to improve by any standard you look at.

Please understand that I mean this in the most polite way possible at the moment.

Get more than physical level 18. Get that thing to 50. Then come back and let us know your thoughts.

I'm getting really tired of these kind of threads popping up from people that have barely even touched the game.

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Originally Posted by Alastor

I must stress that no business is ever forced to give you something in return for your complaints. It is only in the pursuit of GOOD business that Square Enix is giving you the game for free while they work on it.

None of us are entitled to anything here. You may feel that way, and SE has certainly decided to get on their knees for us, but it is certainly within Square Enix's rights to suddenly throw this game to the wind, as much as it is their right to change the name of the game to "Invisible Fire-Breathing Buffalo Invaders."

[Edit:]And furthermore, I should have been more discreet in my word choice, but there are undoubtedly cases of users acting like children in their posts. It was not a blanket statement for every complaint uttered on these forums.

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This may have been previously stated but I'm just going to hop in on this.. The reason they gave it to us for free, is because we won't play it if it's not free, granted some will but they will loose quickly over 70% of their already dwindling player base. People would quit, they would tell their friends.. And the word of a shitty mmo charging 10+$ a month is out rageous, and eventually the servers will drop. Fortunately SE is in a position where they are loaded and can afford to take this hit. They want to make this game grow to a point that they can make money. If they actually will is still in the unknown. I hope they do I love SE games )some of them)...

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

People would quit, they would tell their friends.. And the word of a shitty mmo charging 10+$ a month is outrageous, and eventually the servers will drop.

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I can tell you that 98% of the people I know who are playing would quit if they started charging next month. Most would never give them a chance again. I certainly wouldn't. This -is- their second chance already. I'm pretty sure SE knows this. Now we just gotta' sit back and hope they get it right.

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Originally Posted by Airlea

I can tell you that 98% of the people I know who are playing would quit if they started charging next month. Most would never give them a chance again. I certainly wouldn't. This -is- their second chance already. I'm pretty sure SE knows this. Now we just gotta' sit back and hope they get it right.

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The fact that I have put a lot of time into this game, and I want to see it prosper is the only reason I still keep up with this hot mess.

i found the perfect rebuttle to this.
we paid for a meal and were being given free chips and salsa till our meal arrives but u know i dont mind my meal taking a year and a half while the chef keeps telling me it will be so good while the chips and salsa got dull months ago and everytime they tell me my meal is coming its just another basket of chips