Despite its flaws, i like this game a lot

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Originally Posted by Azurus

The problem with the lack of positive feedback is that the positives are so few in number, and even those are debated on whether or not people like them or not. Off the top of my head i cant think of anything that people would unanimously agree that they like in this game, while i can think of some glaring things we all dislike. Both the positives and the negatives are subjective and depend entirely on what people think, thus it is only natural that the over all tone of the community is subjectively negative being that they are the majority. So many people left for so many reasons that even a positive brought up by someone that actively plays can be hated by 5 that do not.

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i think there were even a lot of posts pointing out the pros and cons a like. But the pros, well they didnt need fixing , perhaps some tweaking at best, so there wasnt the need of goin deeper into it for most people.

The cons well, they still exist and parts of it are fixed, most of them not, some maybe fixed in the future some not.
So that is only natural the negative responses will usually always be the major part, but thats how business works.
It not like a relationship...

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Originally Posted by AdaraaKatsumi

The thing that sucks about these pro-trolls with good ideas is that they don't use the Dev tags as intended. If they want the game improved, they should provide it with the proper tools that were given so that the devs can go from there and worded right to make it a suggestion and not a whine. If it is just a whine thread, then of course it is just going to get ripped and given low priority, if any, by the devs.

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There are many ideas far away from any dev tag... unless that is being fixed or taken care of or also improved (usability of the forum perhaps), there will always be posts not using the dev tags.
They should be a main tag in the forum, one shouldnt need to search for them. And they should be put in different sections, or combined in folders so its not just pages of number so scroll through. Just make it more user friendly imo.

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Originally Posted by AdaraaKatsumi

I find it interesting that the haters of this game have the most posts and yet still play the game and have not moved on to some other game. Hmmmmmm........

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Originally Posted by Demacia

I find it interesting that people actually defend the game to begin with. Anyone who complains is either a troll or a hater, unless they say it nicely.

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Well, maybe Adaraa sees something more than a fail in the game, and would like to watch it fixing. Just a guess...

What is this "I talk good about FFXIV so I'm a defender of this game" thing? I talk good about the lemon pie, but I hate it because it has a too sharp aroma that I can't stand.
Same going with its counterpart.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

The problem with the lack of positive feedback is that the positives are so few in number, and even those are debated on whether or not people like them or not. Off the top of my head i cant think of anything that people would unanimously agree that they like in this game, while i can think of some glaring things we all dislike. Both the positives and the negatives are subjective and depend entirely on what people think,

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You are right that everything is subjective.
May I also point out that saying that "the positives are so few in number" is also subjective? ^^

My subjective viewpoint is that SE got a lot of things right with this game, and I know many of my in-game friends agree: storyline, a myriad of quests for all the different jobs, crafting, being able to play my character in a variety of ways and mix and match skills, being able to equip any item I want, etc.

Of course, the things I like are often things that other people here hate.

It's all subjective.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

thus it is only natural that the over all tone of the community is subjectively negative being that they are the majority. So many people left for so many reasons that even a positive brought up by someone that actively plays can be hated by 5 that do not.

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Saying that people who hate and/or have left the game are the "majority" is still an assumption.
You may be right, but there are no numbers to prove or disprove it.

Fortunately for me, I see a vibrant community of many, many long time players on my server who far outnumber the regular posters I see here. So from where I stand, the negative viewpoint is the minority.

Again, though, it's all subjective. ^^

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Fortunately for me, I see a vibrant community of many, many long time players on my server who far outnumber the regular posters I see here. So from where I stand, the negative viewpoint is the minority.

Again, though, it's all subjective. ^^

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I will agree with this from what I can see on my server... a lot of the people on my server have been around pretty much since the beginning. A lot of the LS's I see on my server are the same LS'es that started when the game was released. Many of the people in my shell have been around since the beginning as well, and still play.

I'm not going to play the number game because we don't know how many started the game, we don't know how many people are still playing and we don't know how many have left. The numbers game that people play is pure speculation on a persons part to prove their point, if that be the positive or negative of the game. But when it comes down to it, we do not know how many people are on each server so we do not know how many are actively playing.

All I can say is that I see people everywhere on my server and we do have a lot of people playing all the time, so I am pleased from my view point at the amount of people wanting this game to succeed and willing to play it out.

Yea, if we say bad things about the game we are trolls. Right!

At least once a month i log in to see the changes and everything.
And it still looks really bad to me.
That's all.

I dont want a FFXI-2.
I said if it was a FFXI-2 at least they would have more people playing and paying for it.

And i dont think that the people that are still playing and enjoying(lol) the game are the ones that should be listened to the most.
Well, if you can enjoy a game like FFXIV, then you lack a lot of MMO experience.
Anyone who plays FFXIV for a month will have the same experiences and feeling than someone who's been playing since the release.

I want a better game.
I played FFXI for 6 years straight, and i want a game that provides me the same experiencie and fun that FFXI did.
I'm not saying it has to be the exactly same game, but i definetely does not feel like a "Final Fantasy" yet.

From my point of view, you guys sound brainwashed.

Yeah yeah, flames ahoy I'm a negative nancy, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Well, if you can enjoy a game like FFXIV, then you lack a lot of MMO experience.
Anyone who plays FFXIV for a month will have the same experiences and feeling than someone who's been playing since the release.

I want a better game.
I played FFXI for 6 years straight, and i want a game that provides me the same experiencie and fun that FFXI did.
I'm not saying it has to be the exactly same game, but i definetely does not feel like a "Final Fantasy" yet.

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10+ years MMO experience (Like you, 6 of that was with FFXI)

25+ years gaming experience

Teach Graphic/Multimedia Design, Video Game Design and Development at College level.

It is not about 'people who like this game lack MMO experience', it is the pure fact that people are allowed to have an opinion, whatever that opinion is. People are also allowed to agree or disagree with other peoples opinions if they choose too.

I will disagree that someone who starts now and plays for a month will have the same experiences as the people who started from the beginning. This game has changed, and things within the game have changed so there is no way that people who start now will have the same experience as people who started due to the fact that there have been changes made since start.

But I will agree while I like the game enough to keep playing it without it getting on my nerves, I do also want a better game and I want some major improvements. By playing it I can see what needs fixing, what has been fixed and what they need to improve on and can give my opinion (like many others on this forum) about how I feel I can help make this game better.

But I do have a general comment, not directed specifically at anyone...

What I don't understand is flaming and personally attacking someone due to a difference in opinion. Does it really help the situation or help fix the game in the long run? If people want to agree to disagree, or politely disagree that is fine and it is a persons right to do so. But when people resort to bullying, harassment, and attacking someone it seems more of an issue of an inability to come up with an intelligent and/or polite way to reply to a person.

I admit, I am at times a bit rude... but it's due to people attacking me for no apparent reason just because they did not agree with me. But in all honesty people... it's an opinion, and it's an opinion on a video game. We can have discussions without having to lower ourselves to being rude to people, I am sure most of us here are adults and can handle it.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Yea, if we say bad things about the game we are trolls. Right!...

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Thank you for taking my words out of context. You only fixated on a small portion of my posts and translated them to fit your needs. I see what you did there.

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Originally Posted by AdaraaKatsumi

Thank you for taking my words out of context. You only fixated on a small portion of my posts and translated them to fit your needs. I see what you did there.

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I don't even remember your post. Sorry man.
It was more like a general comment.

@Kai
And Kai, i get you.
Sorry if i ofended you in any way. It wasn't my intention.

It just makes me really sad to see a game with such a potential going straight downhill lol.
IMO the game didnt improve that much.
It still lacks a lot of things and its been 8 months since the release.

People, including me, are getting tired of waiting.
They'll have to either make this game F2P or cancel it.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

You are right that everything is subjective.
May I also point out that saying that "the positives are so few in number" is also subjective? ^^

My subjective viewpoint is that SE got a lot of things right with this game, and I know many of my in-game friends agree: storyline, a myriad of quests for all the different jobs, crafting, being able to play my character in a variety of ways and mix and match skills, being able to equip any item I want, etc.

Of course, the things I like are often things that other people here hate.

It's all subjective.




Saying that people who hate and/or have left the game are the "majority" is still an assumption.
You may be right, but there are no numbers to prove or disprove it.

Fortunately for me, I see a vibrant community of many, many long time players on my server who far outnumber the regular posters I see here. So from where I stand, the negative viewpoint is the minority.

Again, though, it's all subjective. ^^

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Well im glad you seem to agree with the point i made in my post. I know that me saying there are a lack of positives is subjective, thats why i expanded on that further down. However if you truely think that the amount of people that left outnumbers the people who stayed is subjective, then i'm sorry i have to say your wrong and i wish i had numbers to prove it to you concretely but unfortunately i dont so i have to just make this a your wrong argument, which i hate doing. They took down the ability to see server numbers for a reason, and they got such negative reviews for a reason. And like i said all those things you find positive, a larger number of people despise. Watch/read any review of the game. My point however was not to argue with anyone and talk about how this game sucks. I can tolerate it, however i made this post to put in to perspective WHY there is a lack of positive feedback. Anty nailed the one reason which is that positive things dont need discussing. The other point though is that the positive things are far more debatable and subjective than the negatives. The majority of people left, this is fact or wed be being charged right now. All these people have similar viewpoints from what i have read and watched on what is wrong with this game so it is only natural that alot of certain negatives be plastered all over the forum.

edit: also i hate to do this but i have to point out the specific thing you like in the story line and job missions. These are largely regarded jokes of missions, more often then not they are about as involving as ripping tissue paper, and the job quests.....god...from a marauder's point of view they are terrible. I mean hell the first mission has me go to a lighthouse and chase a bunch of rats around with my giant axe. The amount of epic in alot of these quests are severely lacking. 90% of mobs are docile creatures and unthreatening, i mean hell have you ever grinded sheep for skin? i felt like i wanted to cry how unawesome it felt slaughtering those things.... But if you truely do like the storyline, thats cool you have your opinion, however to me they are missing out on FFesque epicness and your hand is pretty much held by npcs through most of em.

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Yes, you would definitely get that feeling if you judge by the tone of the forums.

I humbly beg to differ based on what I see.

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Wait wait, stop please...FFXIV had about 600K preorders, based on that alone you would infer that more people hate the game than those who like it. If SE is building a game ground up again, they want to target the people that left, not the people that stuck around because quite clearly the people that stuck around are easier to please considering they pushed through the agonizing first few months of the game. And even if the people who stayed just up and left because of changes the game sees, it would hardly harm the game any more than its already harmed, considering SE is probably aiming at 500K to 1000K player base as opposed to the handful that play today.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

I will agree with this from what I can see on my server... a lot of the people on my server have been around pretty much since the beginning. A lot of the LS's I see on my server are the same LS'es that started when the game was released. Many of the people in my shell have been around since the beginning as well, and still play.

I'm not going to play the number game because we don't know how many started the game, we don't know how many people are still playing and we don't know how many have left. The numbers game that people play is pure speculation on a persons part to prove their point, if that be the positive or negative of the game. But when it comes down to it, we do not know how many people are on each server so we do not know how many are actively playing.

All I can say is that I see people everywhere on my server and we do have a lot of people playing all the time, so I am pleased from my view point at the amount of people wanting this game to succeed and willing to play it out.

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Hi Kai!

I hope we can eventually pay visits to other worlds someday.
It would be really nice to meet you in game!

Until then have fun, keep smiling, and know that there are many others like the people you know on Mysidia. ^^

p.s. - I've highlighted in red part of your post that I think needs to be emphasized.

Only reason I still play 14 is because of my ls. But is see potential in this game, and I have had some fun times playing, pretty sure I have gotten my 19.99$ worth.

too me FFXI and XIV has always been about the social experience. i loved how in XI you needed to meet people to lvl up effectivlely, at least you did when i played dunno what changes has been made over the years but i hear its more solo friendly anyhow, i love the same thing for XIV. when this game first came out you needed to be social and make good friends to be able to get stuff crafted and progress well, it was just about running from point a and finding a guy with a ! over his head and doing what he wanted. But yah, for me FF brings a better social experience to an mmo genre than others have, but thats just me =)

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Hi Kai!

I hope we can eventually pay visits to other worlds someday.
It would be really nice to meet you in game!

Until then have fun, keep smiling, and know that there are many others like the people you know on Mysidia. ^^

p.s. - I've highlighted in red part of your post that I think needs to be emphasized.

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It would be great to meet you too! Feel free to contact me if ya like. Im on Lodestone and xivpads too! :D You keep having fun as well!!

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

@Kai
And Kai, i get you.
Sorry if i ofended you in any way. It wasn't my intention.

It just makes me really sad to see a game with such a potential going straight downhill lol.
IMO the game didnt improve that much.
It still lacks a lot of things and its been 8 months since the release.

People, including me, are getting tired of waiting.
They'll have to either make this game F2P or cancel it.

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Nah! You didn't offend me in any way and didn't directly attack me like some, I was just talking in general and responding to what people say. Other peoples opinions don't really bother me because they are allowed to feel the way they want to feel, I only get upset when people attack me for no reason other than they don't agree with my opinion. lol :)

I agree that it still has a while until it will be up to par, and while I wish it would go faster... SE is going to work at SE pace. I just hope they get it to a place were they can get PS3 people involved. I don't think they will canceled the game, they have too much invested in it. Even if they only have 100,000 players...

100k x 12.99 is still about 1.3 million a month and about 15.6 million a year in subscription fees. 100k players now a days isn't a lot for a MMO, but I'm sure they would be happy with 15.5 mil a year...

I told myself I would give them a year... FFXI turned around in about a year in time for US release. I'll see where the game sits then, and then make a decision on what I wish to do. There is another MMO coming out, 'The Secret World', that also looks interesting so I'll see how that goes as well. I love trying new MMO's when they come out to get a feel for what they are. :)

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Hi Kai!

I hope we can eventually pay visits to other worlds someday.
It would be really nice to meet you in game!

Until then have fun, keep smiling, and know that there are many others like the people you know on Mysidia. ^^

p.s. - I've highlighted in red part of your post that I think needs to be emphasized.

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The numbers really arent speculation though, i hate when people use this argument because everyone knows damn well that a large portion of people bought this game at launch and a very small portion stayed. Just cause there are no exact numbers does not make this any less valid. Context clues gathered by examining every step SE has taken are enoughf or people to read between the lines and see the truth. I'm happy some people are having grand ol experiences but many of us arent. And i hate when people think that everything is peaches and cream just cause they are having a great time.

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The numbers game that people play is pure speculation

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The numbers really arent speculation though

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"There's NO CAKE PLATE that demonstrates I ate the cake!"
"No, There IS!"

*silence*

"uh... show i-"
"NEVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

a.K.a. i can haz leenks aboot dut pwees?

It's ok, I can't really play that many hours or i'll get bored so I just log in a few times a week and do some leves with ls mates and then log out.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

The numbers really arent speculation though, i hate when people use this argument because everyone knows damn well that a large portion of people bought this game at launch and a very small portion stayed. Just cause there are no exact numbers does not make this any less valid.

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It is true that X amount of people bought the game. When things started going bad Y amount of people left the game due to whatever reason they had. But as the game has been updated and the updates have been put into effect not only have some of the Y amount come back to the game, but we also have a new basis which is Z who have entered the game.

X = Original Players who bought the game at start
Y = People who left the game during the time the game has been up.
Z = New players who have bought the game anytime since, or recently.

So...
We don't have an exact number for X.
We don't have an exact number of how many Y left.
We don't have an exact number of how many of Y have returned.
We don't have an exact number of how many of Z have entered the equation since.

Then you have the -quantity- factor of, we have no way of knowing how many people are on all the servers. Therefore we can not properly formulate the following percentages:

How many people are playing.
How many people are not playing.
How many people have join the game since the first influx of starter players.

So since the definition of speculation is:

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spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)
noun

Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

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Any 'numbers games' people play, even if they are more towards the right and not the wrong, is in fact, pure speculation because the basis of the facts are based on inconclusive evidence since we do not have solid numbers.

I'm not saying that people who argue that there are more people that left than that stayed are wrong, nor am I saying they are right. I am simply saying that people can say either side, I could say I feel more people are playing now than are gone because the people on my server have increased greatly. In the end that is just how I feel from what I see in the game, but I do not have the data needed to support my feelings. Until SE gives us exact numbers of:

How many copy's were sold since start date vs how many people are playing the game at this present time

We do not have exact numbers, and without exact numbers no one can say 'this is how it is and I am 100% correct that this is true' due to the simple fact that if people don't have exact data to back them up, it is considered speculation. So it is not a silly argument, it's logical facts and no matter how correct it is... it can not be considered 'fact' until SE gives solid numbers.


Edit: Why is my sig broooooken?! XD

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Originally Posted by Renshi

"There's NO CAKE PLATE that demonstrates I ate the cake!"
"No, There IS!"

*silence*

"uh... show i-"
"NEVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

a.K.a. i can haz leenks aboot dut pwees?

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Speculation or otherwise if you looked at this game on the least populated server during the first few weeks after launch, and look at it today on the most populated server and I think that says enough about the "numbers". I understand some of you like to sit in denial but the game isn't doing too well whether there is concrete numbers telling you this or your eyes alone.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Speculation or otherwise if you-

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i can.
haz.
leenks.
aboot dut pwees?

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Originally Posted by Renshi

i can.
haz.
leenks.
aboot dut pwees?

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LOL I hope you're just joking? :P

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Originally Posted by Mack

LOL I hope you're just joking? :P

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no.
sources.
now.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

no.
sources.
now.

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Why so I can prove to you what everyone else here can already see with their own eyes? no thanks. The only source I can give you is pre-order numbers and even those I wont bother because you can google them on your own. The game is on its last leg you don't need to defend that too, its clear as day.

Actually here, I changed my mind, its even worse than I thought. As of September 18th 2010 FFXIV had 200,312 pre-orders according to VGChartz (so give or take). FFXIV currently has 18 servers, lets assume for a second that the only copies the game sold are its pre-orders, this would make each server's population equal to about 11,110 players. That in itself is below FFXI's numbers by about 10K players a server, right there is enough proof that the game didn't start out that great either and it only went downhill. If you think there's anywhere near 11K players a server today then you're only lying to yourself.

Link to VGChartz: http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders.php?date=40440 (as per your request)

This is the only time I'll even bother.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Why so I can prove to you what everyone else here can already see with their own eyes?

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Exactly! Nobody has the vision of a researcher, you know.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Actually here, I changed my mind, its even worse than I thought. As of September 18th 2010 FFXIV had 200,312 pre-orders according to VGChartz (so give or take). FFXIV currently has 18 servers, lets assume for a second that the only copies the game sold are its pre-orders, this would make each server's population equal to about 11,110 players. That in itself is below FFXI's numbers by about 10K players a server, right there is enough proof that the game didn't start out that great either and it only went downhill. If you think there's anywhere near 11K players a server today then you're only lying to yourself.

Link to VGChartz: http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders.php?date=40440 (as per your request)

This is the only time I'll even bother.

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Actually, there ARE players in the servers, who knows if they play =) (and by the way, isn't 10'000 < 11'110 ?)

My point is: At the end, it's pure speculation.
You can say who bought the game, but you can't say who is actually playing the game, so you can't obtain a source about that information, so it's pure speculation.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Exactly! Nobody has the vision of a researcher, you know.


Actually, there ARE players in the servers, who knows if they play =) (and by the way, isn't 10'000 < 11'110 ?)

My point is: At the end, it's pure speculation.
You can say who bought the game, but you can't say who is actually playing the game, so you can't obtain a source about that information, so it's pure speculation.

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10K MORE, I know English isn't your first language so my apologies for not being clear. And I know its speculation but if anyone is speculating the game is doing well 7 months post release considering its still free to play, they'd be speculating wrong. And before the population counters were taken down on Selbina you would see a consistent 1000 players in and around there, do you honestly think this number has went up? and say it didn't even go down since, 1000 players is a fail, even 2000 even 3000...Selbina is the highest pop server today...there's problems.

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Originally Posted by Mack

10K MORE, I know English isn't your first language so my apologies for not being clear. And I know its speculation but if anyone is speculating the game is doing well 7 months post release considering its still free to play, they'd be speculating wrong. And before the population counters were taken down on Selbina you would see a consistent 1000 players in and around there, do you honestly think this number has went up? and say it didn't even go down since, 1000 players is a fail, even 2000 even 3000...Selbina is the highest pop server today...there's problems.

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Yup, and if SE "does things right", the PS3 release will bring back many players, both PS3 and PC sided. I know that there are problems, but they can still fix those problems by doing something really neat! It's Square Enix, so I'm not expecting anything, since what they do is always a surprise (in both good and bad ways) =D

p.s. Thanks for bearing me for my English knowledge. I'm trying to learn more and my LS is doing a great job on it =D

Wow... seriously delusional people ITT...

I'm really shocked that somewhere out there someone is thinking the game is doing 'well'..... Just... amazing... really... I wish we could still do /sea all : (

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

Wow... seriously delusional people ITT...

I'm really shocked that somewhere out there someone is thinking the game is doing 'well'..... Just... amazing... really... I wish we could still do /sea all : (

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I can say that the game is doing well like you say the game is doing bad.
So the game is doing good while it's doing bad.

In conclusion: since those statements have been done by us, the game is doing us.

The game is not doing well.
You're still playing for free.

/thread.

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

The game is not doing well.
You're still playing for free.

/thread.

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"Because I said so!" /poke

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

I'm really shocked that somewhere out there someone is thinking the game is doing 'well'..... Just... amazing... really... I wish we could still do /sea all : (

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Actually I don't think anyone can specifically say how the game is doing. You still have people who don't like the game, people who like the game, people who think it's getting better, people who don't think it's getting better and people who are still waiting to play.

At the moment it is all pure opinion.

My opinion, the game is getting better than it was and still needs work. We will see where it goes over the summer, and hopefully these Dungeons, Jobs, Battle Changes, etc will improve the game even more. If you don't feel the game is doing well then you're welcome to your opinion, just as everyone else is welcome to theirs.

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Originally Posted by Mack

lets assume for a second that the only copies the game sold are its pre-orders, this would make each server's population equal to about 11,110 players.

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Why would anyone assume that the only copies that were sold are its pre-orders? That is crazy. Of course the game has sold additional copies that weren't pre-ordered.

But back on topic, I agree with the TC. Game has some flaws, but I"m enjoying it still. Have been playing since release too.
It does really need that 1.18 patch though