Can this game stop being a monday game?

technically you still can make two different avatars for each job as you would do in any game nothing stopping you. I think what looked good on paper (different jobs on same character) isn't panning out sense you can't repeat regular quests.

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Originally Posted by Zell

My Warrior has just enough gear to start Coil, but need more myth gear to even make it. My FC also wants me to gear out my scholar to help when we lack healing.


My goal was to use myth to gear out Warrior and CT to gear out scholar. This artificial lockout for CT makes it impossible for me to have Scholar geared out in time to be of any use to my FC in COIL. I'll have to prioritize Warrior for the next 2 months. Then spend the next 2 months trying to gear out scholar.

If this was any other mmo, I would have 2 characters. As soon as Warrior was raid/dungeon capped for teh week, I would log off and onto my scholar and proceed to do the same. Parrallel progression, options, variety, FUN!

Now, FFXIV says, the BEST part of our game is that you "DONT NEED TO ROLL OTHER CHARACTERS. YOU CAN BE ALL CLASSES/JOBS on ONE CHARACTER!"

Really now..................

SE, you have artificially capped my ability to play other jobs. One job will always be behind the other, let's not even start with people who have 3 of 4 50s. What was once the best part of the game (multiple jobs) is the worst part based on the mechanic.

Had I known, I would have leveled separate classes. Healer, Tank, and one DPS.

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Originally Posted by Roaminggnome

technically you still can make two different avatars for each job as you would do in any game nothing stopping you. I think what looked good on paper (different jobs on same character) isn't panning out sense you can't repeat regular quests.

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But we also are more efficient in our jobs by having cross-class skills.
So say, you're WHM then to play better we need BLM SC. It just helps out.
Also still being limited and we have to pay more for more characters.

If you're only playing for the stat+1 gear upgrade, you always have a limited amount of content. In fact, if you play like that, the only thing that can increase the amount of content is ignorance. That is, suppose your group can clear the hardest content, then you only need to clear the hardest content (Coil, in this case). You don't even really need to cap mstones because you can already beat anything, so the fact you're even capping your mstones is because you're ignorant.

But let's say your group is somewhere in between like say you can clear up to turn 4 but not Twintania. Guess what, your content is still equally limited. You'll still beat turn 1-4 pretty fast (easily within one day), and then if you truly understand how MMORPG works, you'll know whether your group actually has a chance of beating Twintania or not. Almost invariably you'll realize that your group cannot beat Twintania (because if they can, you'd have done so already), so what you should do is fake an excuse immediately after turn 4 and stop wasting your time. Again, the only reason you'd continue trying Twintania while your group is not ready for him is ignorance.

Of course, as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. If a guildie wants help on Titan, you can say, "I don't see how that'd possibly help on Twintania, and even with it you're too gimp to contribute", or you can actually enjoy the game for what it's worth. If you can't, at least fake an excuse to not log on.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

That's not really being fair. They're making some silly mistakes, but it remains to be seen if the way they're releasing CT is one of them.


So... what exactly do other games offer that isn't fluff (Pet battles/Grinding/Farming) or PvP (which they're adding, and remains to be seen to what extent they'll finalize it) again?

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I am just saying there are already endgame systems in place in XI that could have been used but instead we get this junk. I am not saying copy everything exactly but they have the frame work for it in XI, and they could have altered it to fit into XIV in some way. 2.0 was rushed yet again and needed more time in the oven.

Or they could have if you could only play one class or job each character have made those skills part of the class sense most times people complain if you don't have them making them mandatory anyways.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

But we also are more efficient in our jobs by having cross-class skills.
So say, you're WHM then to play better we need BLM SC. It just helps out.
Also still being limited and we have to pay more for more characters.

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1. You played too much
2. If there were to caps/lockouts, you would just burnout yourself as fast as possible till you either are bored of the grind or got every piece of equipment you wan

You should play single player games.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

thats really my point, all these games are the same $%^% over and over.

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It's funny because that's MY point, and people are complaining about this one as though it's any different.

The issue with this is that this particular MMO model has been successful - absurdly so, considering Blizzard set the gold standard and WHO, SWTOR, FFXIV and countless others have (unsurprisingly) followed suit to try and get their piece of the MMO pie.

FFXIV:ARR took a lot of things WoW did right and expanded upon them. It was a good idea; a very good idea, the game has already surpassed the # of subscriptions XI ever had.

Welcome to the MMO model. Grind X to get Y to get Z. As I said, the only real problem with SE's model so far has been their choice to release a lower tier of content AFTER a higher tier has already been released, and honestly if they really are intending it to be a method to gear up alt jobs for Coil, I'd personally consider it more a stroke of brilliance in-line with their multi-Job single-character model.

I'd suggest taking away from this discussion the following:

- EQ and games with "lots of frontloaded endgame content" had only the illusion of that, nothing more; grinding upon gates upon gates upon more gates upon a small amount of actual raiding content. (Once again - This was a really silly point to try to make.)
- WoW's moving forward with "screw attunements and largely gating, LET THE PEOPLE RAID" was a large step forward and they enjoyed a lot of success thanks in no small part to it, but not all games are able to match the sheer amount of content WoW produces (seriously - they put out a living **** ton of content) and can't really be expected to.
- The game has been out two months and we are already getting a new content patch. It's a bit backwards (unless it's as I mentioned ofc, or otherwise) but it's still a new raiding content patch.

Why in the world are people complaining?

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

I am just saying there are already endgame systems in place in XI that could have been used but instead we get this junk. I am not saying copy everything exactly but they have the frame work for it in XI, and they could have altered it to fit into XIV in some way. 2.0 was rushed yet again and needed more time in the oven.

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I didn't play XI, but from what I've read the only real thing (read: content that wasn't actually a masked gate in reality) that XI had in spades that XIV does not is world bosses, and those came with their own slew of problems (tagging/griefing). My only experience I can compare to is WoW, but I can tell you I stopped doing world bosses the instant I no longer needed anything from them.

Besides: Behemoth/Odin would like a word with you.

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Originally Posted by Doo

So basically

Fate Zerging
Crafting repeatables
Make money
and
Vanity gear.

This game truly lacks variety.

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Or, do it a different way.

1. Do hunting logs.
2. Do dungeons. Even Sastasha. If there's a queue, spend that time levelling up a craft.
3. Collect ALL the vanity gear.

Just because you like the path of least resistance, doesn't mean everyone else chooses that path. I've leveled my tank purely from running dungeons.

Once again, it's all in your mindset. Follow the masses but don't complain about a lack of variety. Do things different, but don't complain that it is inefficient. Either way, you can't have both.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Once again, it's all in your mindset. Follow the masses but don't complain about a lack of variety. Do things different, but don't complain that it is inefficient. Either way, you can't have both.

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Sorry I'm not good at making my own fun like regular people. For Example if speed run WP is the most efficient way to gear up, that's fun to me. You may enjoy doing it with a bunch of people in swimwear and take 2hours but that's not fun to me.

These threads and posts crack me up. The tl;dr should be: I only enjoy one thing about this game; endgame raiding/gear progression, so I will ignore all other aspects of the game and not classify it as content. Why does this game has no content? (sic)

You may not enjoy it, but gathering, crafting, alts, pvp, dungeons, EM primals, is all content. All development in a game doesn't go to release a new raid every patch just to appease the comparatively few players who can farm myth & coil in 2 hours. And to what end? There's no realistic amount of raid content they can put in a newly released game that would keep you playing all week, so it would probably be more intuitive for you to find a hobby that keeps you interested for the rest of the week.

We may as well start making posts about foods we choose to eat once a week because we only know how to cook them one way. They would hold equal merit to these, and will accomplish just as much.

EQ1's content originally is due to spawn timer. If Emperor Ssraeshza respawned on Monday and Aten Ha Ra respawned on Wednesday, you don't get to argue with that kind of schedule because the rival guilds will certainly have no problem killing them at these times, so of course you got to do stuff every day simply because that's when the mob becomes available and if you don't do it, someone else will definitely kill it too. Later on it becomes a matter of politics, as in since the game has even more bizarre class requirement gimmick than this one, you know that the 3rd warm-blooded Beastlord you recruited is needed for encounter X so while this guy is totally useless for everything else, if he whines about wanting to do some lesser content you probably should kill it in case he defects to another guild and now you cannot meet the gimmick class requirement.

As for WoW, people complain about lack of content or too much trash, or bosses that drop nothing useful and just gets in the way all the time throughout its history.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Sorry I'm not good at making my own fun like regular people. For Example if speed run WP is the most efficient way to gear up, that's fun to me. You may enjoy doing it with a bunch of people in swimwear and take 2hours but that's not fun to me.

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That's your prerogative. I do speed run WP with spiritbonding gear. I have 5k HP as a tank, and am capable of doing speed runs, even if for the first part I do one more pull than a regular speed run would. Still gets it done in 15 minutes, and I gain some materia after every 3 runs for my efforts. Just twist it up a little. Do some Praetorium - help out some newbies.

Or you can cap your myths by doing Titan HM 10 times after clearing Coil 1 - 4. Or Garuda HM 15 times. With a geared 1 tank/6 DPS/1 healer party, Garuda HM can be cleared in 4 minutes or less per run. That's 1 hour for 150 myth tomes (make it 75 minutes, since we should count zone in/zone out times, and the off time to go repair gear in between). I am also farming for the Garuda feather anyway, so more benefits for me.

It's like you're complaining that you're sick of eating chicken everyday, yet you still somehow force yourself to continue eating chicken everyday. Try beef for a change. But hey, if you're having fun doing WP speed runs, then more power to you. I personally cannot stand speed runs, and choose not to do them.

EDIT: ValeTudo hit the nail on the head with food analogy.

Honestly it's posts like these that make me wish I could find more widespread roleplay.

I haven't RP'd (or wanted to) in nearly a decade and this is the first game I've played in a long time that makes me want to.

[QUOTE=Borfin;1628256] snip

I am not talking abou hnm or nm's. I am talking about dyamis, nysle isle and the other events. You could enter dynamis every 3 days, nysle isle you could enter once per day or save up your tags and do 4 runs in 1 day. You had other endgame systems that used point or as they are called in XIV tomes.

Now Odin and behemouth dosent count they are useless and dont offer anything of value. They constantly disappear, there is no challenge in defeating them. Neither speak loud to me they are just a faint whisper, and others will agree with me on that (not all will agree).

Admittedly, events are a fair point. I can compare Timeless Isle, but in all honesty, events like these are just more grinding masked as something different.

(Although Timeless Isle proved it can be done in such a way as to be interesting and innovative. Something I liked about GW2 was the platforming elements.)

Odin and Behemoth being uninteresting doesn't devalidate them existing, however. Your saying "they don't offer anything of value" is true of any world boss - they don't once you don't need anything from them anymore and are thus ignored.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Admittedly, events are a fair point. I can compare Timeless Isle, but in all honesty, events like these are just more grinding masked as something different.

(Although Timeless Isle proved it can be done in such a way as to be interesting and innovative. Something I liked about GW2 was the platforming elements.)

Odin and Behemoth being uninteresting doesn't devalidate them existing, however. Your saying "they don't offer anything of value" is true of any world boss - they don't once you don't need anything from them anymore and are thus ignored.

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Some are interested in the future vanity gear but I am not, no offense but if I wanted to play dress up I could do that for free.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Now Odin and behemouth dosent count they are useless and dont offer anything of value. They constantly disappear, there is no challenge in defeating them. Neither speak loud to me they are just a faint whisper, and others will agree with me on that (not all will agree).

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1. Zantetsuken would like a word with you.
2. Their disappearing acts can make it at least a little challenging with trying to find just the right spot to make them appear again.
3. The gear and barding are pretty cool items to obtain, especially with the vanity options coming in a future patch.

No. SE's 3 month patch system is forcing them to use artificial stretching of even the tinyest bits of content in hopes that gamers will stay until the next patch. If they released content like other MMO's do, then they wouldn't have the ''monday'' problem.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

It's like you're complaining that you're sick of eating chicken everyday, yet you still somehow force yourself to continue eating chicken everyday. Try beef for a change.

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The beef still taste like chicken unfortunately. :(

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Originally Posted by Doo

The beef still taste like chicken unfortunately. :(

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Try salad then lol

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Originally Posted by Arale

No. SE's 3 month patch system is forcing them to use artificial stretching of even the tinyest bits of content in hopes that gamers will stay until the next patch. If they released content like other MMO's do, then they wouldn't have the ''monday'' problem.

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You're implying that 3 months is a long time for a MMO to go without additional raid content added.

I can't laugh hard enough at that implication.

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Some are interested in the future vanity gear but I am not, no offense but if I wanted to play dress up I could do that for free.

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I would like you to point out where I said anything about the vanity gear at all.

15min x 5runs = 75min or 1h15min + 15min of rest = 1h30min
Coil T1, 2, 3, 4 = 1h30min
Bottom line = 3h's for Monday grind.

Meaning, you now have 6 more days to craft, gather, level alts, farm philo's, socialize, RP, PvP(2.1), and so on.

I love content as much as the next man, woman, child, but i cant do XI all over again.
Mon: Dyna|Tue:Sea|Wed:Sky|Thu:Sky|Fry: Dyna|Sat:<event>|Sun:Sea
And god knows what else in between. Speaking of me and I hope am not alone here but i cant do that anymore.
I don't want to play a "GAME" that makes me play catch up for a month if i miss 1 day do to having a life.

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Originally Posted by rowdey1

And to the person said if you like raid end game content new MMOs arent for you i will simply point out EQ2 on launch day had a bunch of ready to go T5 raid content which was really good and very few guilds had even 1 tank in full white T5 armor by the time DOF game around ... so yes a game CAN launch with more then 45 minutes a week of end game content

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EQ2 at launch took months to level cap, even with grouping every day and speed pulling in camps. I was DK with a reputation for being a good tank so always got a group. Yet still took months to get to cap. Which gave them plenty of time. Also the raids at launch where pretty much single boss encounters.

Also you HAD to have good gear, as without the right weapons, you couldnt even hit the raid mobs. So not a fair comparison tbh.

Do have some fun memories tho XD being forced to walk across commonlands because you where overburdened with copper coins! People running trains and getting rolled when the trains went back and obliterated all camps on the way and the shared xp debt *eeps*. Nec forest being scarey as hell the first time in there, especially the halfling ghosts *shudder*. lvl 10 and 20 class quests, Betrayel quests camps and being gimp for a week because youre soul shard was in an accessible room! EQ2 was evil at times, but loved it until the expansion!

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

I love content as much as the next man, woman, child, but i cant do XI all over again.
Mon: Dyna|Tue:Sea|Wed:Sky|Thu:Sky|Fry: Dyna|Sat:<event>|Sun:Sea
And god knows what else in between. Speaking of me and I hope am not alone here but i cant do that anymore.
I don't want to play a "GAME" that makes me play catch up for a month if i miss 1 day do to having a life.

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Why do you need to do them all ? Why do you have to play catch up instead of playing at your own pace?
Is this the reason why so many players resort to RMTing? Because they feel the need to catch up or be stronger but don't have the time?

This game needs to go Free to Play , sick of paying to play 4 days a month .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

This game needs to go Free to Play , sick of paying to play 4 days a month .

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Then don't.

Bye.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

15min x 5runs = 75min or 1h15min + 15min of rest = 1h30min
Coil T1, 2, 3, 4 = 1h30min
Bottom line = 3h's for Monday grind.

Meaning, you now have 6 more days to craft, gather, level alts, farm philo's, socialize, RP, PvP(2.1), and so on.

I love content as much as the next man, woman, child, but i cant do XI all over again.
Mon: Dyna|Tue:Sea|Wed:Sky|Thu:Sky|Fry: Dyna|Sat:<event>|Sun:Sea
And god knows what else in between. Speaking of me and I hope am not alone here but i cant do that anymore.
I don't want to play a "GAME" that makes me play catch up for a month if i miss 1 day do to having a life.

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Nice, this is another good reasoning! Be a gamer, AND have a social life too! Unfortunately I had none to begin with...

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Originally Posted by Doo

Why do you need to do them all ? Why do you have to play catch up instead of playing at your own pace?
Is this the reason why so many players resort to RMTing? Because they feel the need to catch up or be stronger but don't have the time?

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Same reason people buy Titan runs I guess (and soon to be, Coil runs). It's like how people aren't invited to speed runs unless they have Relic +1/DL, so they feel pressured to gear up I guess. Although I don't think people should feel that way, they should play the game at their own pace.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Then don't.

Bye.

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The point is with CLASS lockouts we would not have to quit like you are suggesting.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

The point is with CLASS lockouts we would not have to quit like you are suggesting.

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Oh wow, deja vu. It's almost as though I talked about that earlier in the thread or something.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

The point is with CLASS lockouts we would not have to quit like you are suggesting.

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That's no better, currently you are measured depending on how geared you "main" is. With job/class lockouts you will be measured by how much all of then are geared, no matter if you play them or not.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

EQ2 at launch took months to level cap, even with grouping every day and speed pulling in camps. I was DK with a reputation for being a good tank so always got a group. Yet still took months to get to cap. Which gave them plenty of time. Also the raids at launch where pretty much single boss encounters.

Also you HAD to have good gear, as without the right weapons, you couldnt even hit the raid mobs. So not a fair comparison tbh.

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yup .. like i said u had to EARN killing the raid bosses and getting that bad ass gear .... something that is lacking here

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Originally Posted by rowdey1

yup .. like i said u had to EARN killing the raid bosses and getting that bad ass gear .... something that is lacking here

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Hahahahahahahaha.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

GRINDING = EARNING = COMPELLING GAME DESIGN APPARENTLY. It's so much fun to farm the same mob for 6 hours! It's earning my gear!

So... why aren't you playing EQ2 again? Last I heard it's still active. G'wan. Go play.

Go take months of grinding and crafting before you can even attempt a boss.

That takes skill.

Go "earn" it.

Gee, I wonder why EQ died...

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Hahahahahahahaha.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

GRINDING = EARNING = COMPELLING GAME DESIGN APPARENTLY. It's so much fun to farm the same mob for 6 hours! It's earning my gear!

So... why aren't you playing EQ2 again? Last I heard it's still active. G'wan. Go play.

Go take months of grinding and crafting before you can even attempt a boss.

That takes skill.

Go "earn" it.

Gee, I wonder why EQ died...

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you sir are ignorant and not even worth a response but i will anyway ... the raid bosses were tough to kill and so yes you had to earn the kills and the gear ... here however u just have to repeat a level 50 dungeon that u can do in 20 minutes to get end game gear which im sure you think is just fine and dandy .. you sir are what kills mmos

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Originally Posted by rowdey1

you sir are ignorant and not even worth a response but i will anyway ... the raid bosses were tough to kill and so yes you had to earn the kills and the gear ... here however u just have to repeat a level 50 dungeon that u can do in 20 minutes to get end game gear which im sure you think is just fine and dandy .. you sir are what kills mmos

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Wait, we were discussing the bosses? I'm pretty sure I'm ridiculing your claim that spending 3 months farming 4 sets of mobs so you could actually do something somewhat challenging was anything other than tedious and boring as hell.

Like I said, EQ2 is right over there. Go earn your gear, dude.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Same reason people buy Titan runs I guess (and soon to be, Coil runs). It's like how people aren't invited to speed runs unless they have Relic +1/DL, so they feel pressured to gear up I guess. Although I don't think people should feel that way, they should play the game at their own pace.

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Yeah you're right. I just think it's sad really for players with this type of mentality. If you ever played Diablo 3 it was crazy the amount of real money people were wasting in order to feel leet. I made 1000 from just getting a lucky drop and even items that weren't that great was flying off the shelf for 250 dollars (limit) a piece.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

He pays the same subscription price as you do. He can make any thread he wishes to voice concerns.

I don't see how voicing that you want to play the game more is in the wrong.

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It's called "cruelty to animals".

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Although I'm not sure if 10% is a precise number, I can say that the progression threads show many FC's are still unable to do all of the current content.

Also, 2.1 is in less then 2 weeks. By the time most of the community has finished the current content it will be 2.2.

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Just because a progression thread doesn't list a guild as having done something doesn't mean they didn't do it. Progression threads are no where near an accurate way of measuring server progression.

We are on Turn 5, the progression thread doesn't even have us listed. That's because I don't really bother with getting our FC on their.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Not me, I play everyday. The choice to not do anything else is yours alone.

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What else is there to do?

Level mining/botany, crafts, other jobs?

That's not really fun. I choose to do what is fun. If this were my first MMO Ever, then the grinds wouldn't be so bad and I'd be having fun all the time, but it isn't, this is like my 5th or 6th MMO. What appeals to me is end game content now, raids, etc, nothing else.

My fun is the right fun. Your fun is wrong.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

Seriously, one week lock outs for everything. Coil, Tomes, CT gear. Why does everything need a lockout. I mean like the vanity from CT alone is a extremely weak reason to even bother with CT and i doubt from the main story and coils that it will be a compelling story. Most likely a cheese gather event to get in it. Yay.

Its getting harder and harder to log in any day besides monday.

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Welco0me to any MMORPG ever. Play on friday. Work on your crafting. ETC