Hydaelyn at large (is there a compilation of info yet?)

Isn't that the exact same thing the Moblins did in FFXI to create Oldton Movalpolos or some such?

Yeah, pretty much. I am wondering if we will eventually get a goblin settlement near Limsa? There does seem to be a large community there of trader goblins.

Edit: There is actually a possibility for multiple Goblin settlements throughout Eorzea which we do not know about. We have Brayflox's Longstop, which seems to be more like camps and temporary homes reminiscent of the migratory nature of goblins present in the lore.

We also have the Illuminati faction of Goblins to consider - the defector Mutamix in Thanalan being of their clan, and the new enemies attacking the Longstop (the Illuminati goblins remind me of moblins in XI, both physically and lore-wise). I would assume the Illuminati have a base camp/city of some sort, too.

This new Goblin home on Vylbrand, inside a mountain, seems like it would be possibly encroaching on the territory of kobolds, depending on the location. It seems that Limsa Lominsa officials are at least okay and knowledgeable about the Goblin city, as they have entered trade agreements with them for the ore and goods being excavated for the subterranean city.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well, I took that to refer to the new residential construction going on in that area instead of a new goblin city (it's what those big jackhammers are for) - hence why there's attempts to kick the remaining residents of the Silver Bazaar out as they want to resume the land for new construction.. Also remember the new residential area the Goblet is located nearby within a mountain as well (or rather, on a mesa surrounded by mountains), so it's likely that's what that leve description is referring to.

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It is actually in Limsa, not Thanalan. The armourer and blacksmith guilds are buying ore from the goblins, the goblins have dug out the inside of a mountain to build a new city. I do not see goblins building a city for another race without the promise of a lot of jinglyshine.

In the leve, you escort a goblin trader in this leve who is off to negotiate price and trade.

Ah, never mind my ramblings then, carry on. :D

And yes, in FFXI the moblins were the ones who created the underground settlement of Movalopolos, but the thing to remember is moblins were actually not goblins per se, but more an offshoot of the species (they looked larger than goblins and wore different shaped armour, not to mention they spoke differently, more with a husky, gasping pidgin accent compared to the goblins legible, if somewhat crude, common tongue - even their naming styles were different to goblins, hinting even more at moblins being 'different'.) The fact they even built a permanent city showed they were a culture and society separate to regular goblins, who were specifically stated being nomadic and transient in nature.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The fact they even built a permanent city showed they were a culture and society separate to regular goblins, who were specifically stated being nomadic and transient in nature.

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This is what I find fascinating. We have our Illuminati goblins (who have very different armour and designs, versus regular FFXIV goblins). And this idea of a goblin city? It goes against what sort of know about our nomadic beastmen friends, yet at the same time, makes savvy business sense. If they establish a city, like the five races, they would have a lot more bargaining power. They are quite ingenious, a city of goblins might be surprisingly forward thinking!

Mayhaps this also opens the doorway to a goblin stronghold, dailies, and alas, even primal?

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Yeah it's def an island with Radz-at-Han as the capital. The OP of this thread has the sources listed already if you want to see for yourself (most relevent the item descriptions for Adamantoise Shell and Thavnairian Mistletoe). Mint Lassi does refer to it as "city-state" though, so there may be a conflation of terms here. What is 100% clear though is that it's definitely separate from Othard.

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It seems the recently added Jalzahn agrees with Radz-at-Han being a city-state.

He also invented Thavnairian mist - the elixir which helps us infuse spirits into our weapons!

Not a major spoiler, it is a conclusion about land masses present in the main scenario dialogue in 2.2 which I am surprised with!

Well, I'll eat my cleric's circlet. It seems Othard is the same as the Far East, at least according to the story in 2.2. This does go against how I interpreted the information present in game currently.
I guess why it does not seem right with me, is the consideration that we have visitors from the Far East all the time, and Othard is supposed to be under Garlean rule.

Unless, of course, there are more than one continent/landmass in the Far East... I hope we find out! Give me a world map!

To add to discussion on the Far East:

I believe Yugiri did mention that not *all* of Othard is fully conquered, as the Empire did not consider a few of them a threat. It's entirely possible the frequent visitors are from those few bastions of freedom left. The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home, and I'd like to think that larger cities would be bigger targets for Garlemald, with only small rural villages flying under the radar.

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Originally Posted by Myranda

I believe Yugiri did mention that not *all* of Othard is fully conquered

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Did she? I hope so. I know I mentioned it but I found that in my Rise of the White Raven post-it notes and wasn't sure if it applied to this patch's information or something yet-to-be-mentioned, lol.

Hmmm. I'd have to go back and check now since I've been looking at a lot of different lore sources lately building up my FC trivia event. I thought it was from her, but I could be wrong. Obviously I can't see your post-its but I know I saw it somewhere, there must be a legitimate source for it.

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire ; as Doma was razed to the ground as an example. I recall it because in contradicted what I'd heard here. Of course, I was tired from coming right of work, so I may have misheard.

Yes, well I am now more perplexed about the Near and Far East and the three Great Continents! If anyone can post sources and information here, quotes, quest names, etc., particularly from the update, that would be great help! I will be scouring my screenshots and things later today to do this as well. I think I will also scour the New Year's events script again! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Myranda

To add to discussion on the Far East:

I believe Yugiri did mention that not *all* of Othard is fully conquered

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Hmmm, this wasn't the impression I got - I really do need to reread Yugiri's script. Thank you for giving me something to focus on :)

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Originally Posted by Myranda

The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home

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Yes, I agree. I seem to have a faint recollection about one of the event ambassadors mentioning society in the north of the Far East, etc. I really want to reread this script.

Another point that bothers me. Limsa Lominsa has a very highly active trade with the Far East, and we have implications that citizens of the Far East are able to get fishing vessels into the waters off of Eorzea. If this is the case, I do not see it being overly difficult for the Domans to escape Othard. It would also make me reconsider how dominant the Garlean forces really were over Othard.

Perhaps this is what Yugiri meant by "borrowed colours", she used flags from another nation's trade ships? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Grayve

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire.

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This was always my impression, but this is what the lore on the official website says:

• Garlean Empire The Garlean Empire controls the majority of the Three Great Continents, the enormous landmass that encompasses Eorzea.
• Garlemald was a remote and sparsely populated nation which held little more than a fraction of the northern continent of Ilsabard
• One nation after the next fell before their relentless onslaught, first those of the northlands, followed by the sovereign states of the eastern continent, Othard.

I suppose there is room in there to argue that all of Othard is not subjugated. Yet, out visitors from the Far East mention the Twelve during their stay in Eorzea for Heavensturn (even showing reverence for them, perhaps considering them apart of their own mythos). If there were neighbouring villages to kingdoms conquered by the imperial forces worshiping false gods, I wouldn't be a happy Garlean.

Also, as an aside, is there a source that says that all three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, etc? I can only assume from the Eorzean map that Ilsabard connects to Aldenard just beyond Gyr Abania. I have read in other threads that the three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, which I have not seen anywhere in game or lore in 2.0+. I think people are simply expecting the realm to be like the map of Vana'diel.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Hmmm, this wasn't the impression I got - I really do need to reread Yugiri's script. Thank you for giving me something to focus on :)

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I would like to reread it as well. She also implies she doesn't know what a primal is, asking Minfilia 'Primal'? In a questioning tone before offering to help prevent Levithans summoning.

If you speak to her after Levithan is summoned, she says

"The gods of this realm are vengeful beings. 'Tis of little wonder the Garleans fear their kind so."

To me, that implies that the gods of her realm aren't the same. They don't worship the 12 in Othard, correct?


As for the ships flying under false flags... it sounds more like the Garleans made the city states in vassals rather then outright subjugating them. And perhaps why Dhoma was razed as an example.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

I would like to reread it as well. She also implies she doesn't know what a primal is, asking Minfilia 'Primal'?

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Actually, I think she does not know the terminology of "primal" but understands what they are.

She does mention, and I will need to rewatch the cutscene for her exact wording, but something along the lines of primals being gods that once walked amongst men in Othardian legends. And indeed, there were primals present there in the past which the Garlean empire have faced.

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Originally Posted by Official Website - Solus zos Galvus

The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals—an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

To me, that implies that the gods of her realm aren't the same. They don't worship the 12 in Othard, correct?

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Well, of this I can't be 100% certain. It's a grey area. Here is what evidence is present:

• When creating a new character, and starting in Ul'dah, there is this line of text from the debt collector Lalafell as he accosts the Hyur in the Quicksand before the player character and Momodi: "In the East, it is said that even a merciful god might be driven to vengeance if thrice blasphemed."
• During Heavensturn, the Far Eastern npcs say the following: Uma Bugyo: When the new totem proved the horse, it seemed the Twelve smiled upon us; for even in Eorzea, minds arch high and wide during Heavensturn...
  Red Uma Doshin: <pant><pant>...Come to relieve me? Oh, thank the Twelve.
• And, from what I recall of what Yugiri was saying, she does seem to associate primals with gods of Othard legend, or something along those lines. I really do need to reread those cutscenes... Haha.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire ; as Doma was razed to the ground as an example. I recall it because in contradicted what I'd heard here. Of course, I was tired from coming right of work, so I may have misheard.

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While we do want to find official sources, I will note that razing Doma as an example doesn't necessarily mean the entire continent must needs be conquered. It could just serve as a warning to those that are under Garlean control that rebellion will be put down swiftly.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Perhaps this is what Yugiri meant by "borrowed colours", she used flags from another nation's trade ships? :confused:

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Yes, that's exactly what was meant.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Also, as an aside, is there a source that says that all three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, etc? I can only assume from the Eorzean map that Ilsabard connects to Aldenard just beyond Gyr Abania. I have read in other threads that the three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, which I have not seen anywhere in game or lore in 2.0+. I think people are simply expecting the realm to be like the map of Vana'diel.

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I can't really think of any case in Vana'diel that would be a land bridge aside from Jeuno, which wasn't really a land bridge though. It was quite literally an actual man-made bridge (multiple bridges, actually) that just happened to have a city at their center. The land bridges of XIV mean more along the lines of how Panama is just a thin strip of land that connects North/Central America with South America. An isthmus, if you will.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Actually, I think she does not know the terminology of "primal" but understands what they are.

She does mention, and I will need to rewatch the cutscene for her exact wording, but something along the lines of primals being gods that once walked amongst men in Othardian legends. And indeed, there were primals present there in the past which the Garlean empire have faced.

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I would have to agree she's just not familiar with the term and probably would more easily have understood the Imperial term eikon, and also likely had never actually seen one in the flesh. Given that the Empire was hardly even founded 50 years ago to start dealing with the primal threat, she'd have to be pretty piss poor at knowing the rather recent history of her nation if she new nothing at all of them.

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Originally Posted by Myranda

I can't really think of any case in Vana'diel that would be a land bridge aside from Jeuno, which wasn't really a land bridge though. It was quite literally an actual man-made bridge (multiple bridges, actually) that just happened to have a city at their center. The land bridges of XIV mean more along the lines of how Panama is just a thin strip of land that connects North/Central America with South America. An isthmus, if you will.

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It has been a while since I played XI, but yes, I forgot it was man made bridges, hahaha. But I guess, what I was implying is the notion that people are saying the "three Great Continents" are physically connected in Hydaelyn without evidence, but that could be because of the expectation and familiarity of Vana'diel's middleland continents being physically connected.

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Yes, that's exactly what was meant [referring to "borrowed colours"].

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Which is interesting in and of itself - I guess what I was inferring to was the fact the Garleans are not attacking specific nation's trade to the East if the Domans felt comfortable enough to borrow colours for their ships.

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Originally Posted by Myranda

The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home

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So, I discovered you can read a lot of the quest dialogue on XIVDB. In the Limsa part of the Heavensturn event, "Heavenly Power", we are to haul carrots for the harvest. This is said by the Far Eastern assistance who has injured himself carrying carrots: "...Come to relieve me? Oh, thank the Twelve. Blasted yoriki and his ideas! He's a northeasterner, you know. They're all off their gourd."

It is these little one liners found throughout the event (hinting at a wider, free realm), the general gaiety of the Easterlings (they are having a lot of fun!), and the fact that they come freely to Eorzea every Heavensturn just to celebrate, rather than plead for help to liberate their continent, strikes me as really odd. Whilst I concede defeat (and ate my cleric's circlet) in regards to Othard being the Far East, I am still hedging my bets that the Far East is either an extremely large continent, or there is multiple large landmasses which make up the Far East. It would explain a lot of the information present, but this is just my inference.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

It has been a while since I played XI, but yes, I forgot it was man made bridges, hahaha. But I guess, what I was implying is the notion that people are saying the "three Great Continents" are physically connected in Hydaelyn without evidence, but that could be because of the expectation and familiarity of Vana'diel's middleland continents being physically connected.

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The continents being connected by a land bridge comes from early marketing materials, before 1.0 was released I think. I'm sure someone with more resources readily available could give you a quote. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned since that (maybe at the 1.0 site it was?), but nothing since has contradicted that piece of info so there is no reason to stop thinking that that is how the continents are laid out.

After finally getting to the 2.2 storyline and rereading Yugiri's comments about her homeland, she pretty clearly states what happened and the geopolitical situation that is/was on Othard:

how the Garlean Empire is tearing itself apart due to Emperor Solus finally dying, causing 'the War of Succession' over who would take the throne, given Solus never chose a successor.

The Domans, who were subjugated like all the other nations on Othard, decided to try and take advantage of the political turmoil by rebelling openly against their Imperial oppressors, which tragically backfired, in the Garlean forces counterattacked and literally crushed the rebellion to serve as a warning to the other subject nations. The rebellion wasn't just put down, the Empire literally destroyed the entire nation - Yugiri mentions her small band of refugees are literally all those who survived the rebellion and managed to flee.

So yeah, according to Yugiri's comments Doma wasn't a 'free' nation - it was a vassal of Garlemald like every other nation on Othard, so the information she gives fits with what has long been stated on the Lodestone about Othard being entirely under the Garlean jackboot.

I don't think anyone was ever trying to say that Doma was free. Just that there may be others on Othard that are. Of all the places I've seen it mentioned that "all" of Othard is conquered it's seemed plausible to me that it may be only a figure of speech that avoids mentioning all the little nuances.

If it is entirely subjugated though, that still leaves us with the question of where exactly our Heavensturn visitors hail from and how broad the meaning of "Far East" is.

And going back to the "borrowed colors" Kyan, I think they only flew the new colors to avoid pursuers later in the journey, not when they launched. So it's not that the Garleans aren't attacking ships, they must have just used a convenient time to slip past the Garlean's notice and once out of range, didn't want to be rediscovered.

Yeah, the Heavensturn npcs do seem rather contradictory, especially given the fact that they are clearly Asian-influenced, and that the Domans seem to share similar cultural aspects (the refugees call chocobos 'horsebirds', just like the Heavensturn ones did, and interestingly, all seem to wear the same outfit with an Asian character written on their backs (whether this is their nation's 'crest' or something cultural I have no idea, but it seems interesting all the same).

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Kyan is correct, Thavnair is an island... though it may be a part of the same region as Othard, sort of like Vylbrand and Aldenard make Eorzea. So they may be similar in cultures, the whole Final Fantasy samurai/ninja/blue mage/etc societies we associate with the "east."

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Yeah it's def an island with Radz-at-Han as the capital. The OP of this thread has the sources listed already if you want to see for yourself (most relevent the item descriptions for Adamantoise Shell and Thavnairian Mistletoe). Mint Lassi does refer to it as "city-state" though, so there may be a conflation of terms here. What is 100% clear though is that it's definitely separate from Othard.

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Originally Posted by Corvinoobus

Radz-at-Han claims the entirety of Thavnair as its territory, much as Limsa Lominsa and Ul’dah claim to have dominion over the smaller settlements throughout La Noscea and Thanalan respectively. Alas, this means that the current description of Thavnairian mist is incorrect and must be revised with a future update. Hope that clarifies things!

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Hello team, in the patch notes, it says [Jalzahn is a Far Eastern alchemist]. In game, Jalzahn clearly states that he comes from the Near Eastern city-state of Radz-at-Han. I am certain the Far East and the Near East are two separate countries?

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Originally Posted by Corvinoobus

They are indeed different places, and you'll find that Jalzahn's origins are now correctly described in the patch notes. Thanks!

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Well, that well and truly solves that little riddle about Radz-at-Han, though that cheeky pudding has me laughing at his round-about answer (which I bolded) about the Near and Far East. Different places isn't quite different countries, is it? Still, we know Thavnair is an island so it is definitely separate from Othard in that regard. Here's hoping for more translation/typo/errors about other regions of Hydaelyn in the future! :)

Hey guys!

Whilst I am very busy IRL with study, I am holding on to a glimmer of hope that, after the next three busy, crazy weeks of me teaching full time, I will have some respite and be able to update this thread with information tidbits, like the Isle of Val and taffeta cloth, in this thread. I was reluctant to do so for spoilers, but now I feel that it is okay to include this information!

I have yet to go through the current information on this thread, as some of it has changed due to localisation errors. Also, there may be leve information and content which I have not participated in yet - please feel free to share any information you find, no matter how obscure it is, about the other lands of Hydaelyn!

Is the new layout of the first post okay? I am wanting to do something similar for the thread about the Void, too - going through all the leves, items and quest dialogue I can to compile information about the netherworld. It is a work in progress!

First of all I wanna say that this thread is awesome, and super informative. Got me all pumped up to reroll a new character on the game and reread all the storyline.
And thank god I did, cuz now I can help out with this:

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Another point that bothers me. Limsa Lominsa has a very highly active trade with the Far East, and we have implications that citizens of the Far East are able to get fishing vessels into the waters off of Eorzea. If this is the case, I do not see it being overly difficult for the Domans to escape Othard. It would also make me reconsider how dominant the Garlean forces really were over Othard.

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The LV. 2 Lominsan sidequest "Licensed to Reave" has you deliver a couple of spice sampler to both Coral Tower and the Bismarck.
When you deliver the sample to the Bismarck, Lyngsath, the guildmaster, says the following:

Lyngsath: A new sample from the Seventh Sage? Alright, let's 'ave a whiff of it, then.
Lyngsath: Hmmm... Ain't smelled nothin' like it afore. The note as came with it says it's a root what grows on Othard.
Lyngsath: Last I 'eard, Othard was under imperial rule. 'Ow the seven 'ells did Carvallain manage to get 'old o' this?

So Lyngsath confirms from the beginning that Othard is in fact under Imperial rule. Now how does Limsa get a hold of a lot of things from the East?

Carvallain: With the Admiral's blessing, we engage in a form of trade with Garlean ships. Everything we do, you may rest assured, is within the law.

As the sidequest summary states:

In completing the task, you have endeared yourself to Carvallain. He reveals to you his ambitions to grow rich as a privateer, attacking and looting Garlean ships in the Admiral's name.

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Originally Posted by SirEdeonX

First of all I wanna say that this thread is awesome, and super informative. Got me all pumped up to reroll a new character on the game and reread all the storyline.
And thank god I did, cuz now I can help out with this:

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Fantastic! Thank you Edeon! I do recall doing that quest, but it was so long ago! You're right, maybe I should create a new character to find these lore tidbits form the beginning quests, too! :)

So, I haven't updated this thread in a long time, nor my notes since entering full-time employment. However, I just spent some time rereading everything and I giggled at some of my predictions and inferring being correct and very incorrect. I might make it a personal goal to update this over the Christmas break. Please look forward to it! Now, time to reread every tooltip and item description...

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Originally Posted by Kyan

So, I haven't updated this thread in a long time, nor my notes since entering full-time employment. However, I just spent some time rereading everything and I giggled at some of my predictions and inferring being correct and very incorrect. I might make it a personal goal to update this over the Christmas break. Please look forward to it! Now, time to reread every tooltip and item description...

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Don't forget the lorebook. It might clear up a lot of things.