People abusing party in progress option

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

I'm sorry, but the morons here are you and all the other people who abuse such a system.
You mess other people queues, waste their time and then you also want to get easy points?

You are the scum of this community. You should get banned for stopping players from starting a run.

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So you respond to a comment with faulty logic, then at the end resort to insults? To me, it would seem that YOU are the scum of the community. Either back up your statements if you object or do not reply to the comment to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Ramza_Beoulve

So you respond to a comment with faulty logic, then at the end resort to insults? To me, it would seem that YOU are the scum of the community. Either back up your statements if you object or do not reply to the comment to begin with.

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I was insulted, I insult back.

And where is the faulty logic? The guy thinks that as long as something is doable it should be done.
I can walk naked on the street but common sense tells me not to do it.
I can do a lot of things but just because I can, it does not mean I should abuse of my freedom.

He thinks he is right in wasting other people's time? Feels smarter? Scum is scum. Period.

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Originally Posted by TerryQ1967

No not lazy, we just don't have the time. That's why the join in progress is there. Get used to it.

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I work 64-72 hours a week, 2-3 days of that is 16 hour shifts, and even I don't do this. I still manage to find groups to do Coil with, still manage to cap my myth tomes very quickly (10~20min runs), and have a couple relics already with several Ilvl 90 items. I've never had to queue hop to get that completed and still have more than enough time to do what is needed. I even have time to vpn into my work domain and do a few things from home also. You're reason is invalid and boils down to sheer laziness. Get used to it.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

I was insulted, I insult back.

And where is the faulty logic? The guy thinks that as long as something is doable it should be done.
I can walk naked on the street but common sense tells me not to do it.
I can do a lot of things but just because I can it does not mean I should abuse of my freedom.

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People aren't always right but look at the likes, you are losing the argument. Frein has provided an argument that has rationale. All I see from you at this point is irrelevant counterarguments.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

People aren't always right but look at the likes, you are losing the argument. Frein has provided an argument that has rationale. All I see from you at this point is irrelevant counterarguments.

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4 likes? Yours, the guy above and the 2 other posters who admitted they withdraw to get points? Then I prefere keeping my counter at 0.
I don't need anyone's like to believe in what I say.

That's completely fair that you will do what you believe is right. However, you can't compare a situation like withdrawing from a queue and getting a reward (myth) to walking down the street naked where you could very possibly get punished by the police.

Just for the record, I have withdrew and queued a few times but I only did it like 3 times because I'm like it's not fair for the people on the other end to waste more than 30 seconds of their time and I'm not really saving time either. I'll just join whatever pops up from now on because it is more fair and I have the time as should anyone that decides to play an MMO.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

That's completely fair that you will do what you believe is right. However, you can't compare a situation like withdrawing from a queue and getting a reward (myth) to walking down the street naked where you could very possibly get punished by the police.

Just for the record, I have withdrew and queued a few times but I only did it like 3 times because I'm like it's not fair for the people on the other end to waste more than 30 seconds of their time and I'm not really saving time either. I'll just join whatever pops up from now on because it is more fair and I have the time as should anyone that decides to play an MMO.

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It's not just 30 seconds. When AK had the instance cap issues, after a withdraw, the party was thrown back. While someone withdraws, some other party that you could have joined might get filled. In the end it's like restarting the queue.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

I can do a lot of things but just because I can, it does not mean I should abuse of my freedom.

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Please remember, just because he insults you does not mean you should insult him. Practice what you preach.

Also keep in mind, insulting people is not tolerated, for all parties involved, . The forums is for a place of discussion. Your last comment is pushing it a bit, if not over.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

He thinks he is right in wasting other people's time? Feels smarter? Scum is scum. Period.

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That and the player should be docked gil as well

The salt is strong in this thread!

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

It's not just 30 seconds. When AK had the instance cap issues, after a withdraw, the party was thrown back. While someone withdraws, some other party that you could have joined might get filled. In the end it's like restarting the queue.

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I don't know how the queues work exactly but I'm not sure it restarts the queue. In my experience, sometimes it does restart and sometimes it doesn't. For example, when I queued up for Titan hard mode sometimes people would back out of the queue. When they backed out, sometimes all the members would stay queued up and other times everyone would restart in the queue because I would be the only person in the queue. So it could cost more than 30 seconds and I'm sorry if I cost someone 40 minutes or more.

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Originally Posted by Gucci_Charms

Um, a lot of the in-progress sessions I have joined was because the Tank left.

Ironically, the reason for the tank leaving is because the people I got matched up with using the in-progress option ended being jerks. And they wonder why their tank left? LOL

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This can go both ways, honestly. I've met scores of under-geared tanks or tanks who can't hold aggro/threat properly (and don't use their skills correctly, even) and we all end up dying a lot. I usually am not the one to spout crap at them, but my other party members are always willing (mostly the healer).

An example I have from a DF party last night. Our tank was geared well, but surprisingly he had no solid knowledge of how a tank was played. He constantly lost aggro/threat, rarely flashed or shield lobbed, and loved to open with provoke (what?). The other DPS, whom played a tank usually, asked if he wanted some tips and all he was met with was silence. After several more minutes the healer was ready to bail. I opted out first and saved the tank and everyone else their 15 min lock-out timer.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

I'm sorry, but the morons here are you and all the other people who abuse such a system.
You mess other people queues, waste their time and then you also want to get easy points?

You are the scum of this community. You should get banned for stopping players from starting a run.

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You lost bro. Give it up.

Taking out the progress meter solves this doesn't it? Didn't read through the whole 10 pages, but I think it was mentioned as a WoW fix on the first one. Wasn't that /thread ?

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Originally Posted by Mairuzu

You lost bro. Give it up.

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Most people support the OP and basically everyone agrees that it's childish behavior except the people who behave like that themselves. Oh yeah, he totally lost. Haha.

This is mostly an nonissue because it's basically a prisonner's dilemma and as long as you've more than one jerk in this world, all the jerks of the world lose from having to fend off other jerks. For the law abiding citizens all the jerks really do is make the annoying 'queue pop' noise 20 times in a row, but without those jerks your queue wouldn't even pretend to pop in the first place so it's not like you lost anything. In the interest of the game, there should be safeguards (I suggest 30s lockout for declining DF for any reason) just to protect people from their own stupidity, but in the grand scheme of things, the only guys who lose are the guys trying to cheat the system unless they're lucky enough to be doing this while no other jerks are trying the same thing.

And the battle rages on...

How to be efficent with the amount of free time your given without being an enormous entitled jerkwad:

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

I work 64-72 hours a week, 2-3 days of that is 16 hour shifts, and even I don't do this. I still manage to find groups to do Coil with, still manage to cap my myth tomes very quickly (10~20min runs), and have a couple relics already with several Ilvl 90 items. I've never had to queue hop to get that completed and still have more than enough time to do what is needed. I even have time to vpn into my work domain and do a few things from home also. You're reason is invalid and boils down to sheer laziness. Get used to it.

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I too work, and I can almost go a week without playing. Even still if I have more than an hour of playtime I'll gather my friends, or even hop on a speedrun pug in mor dhona.
If I have less than that, then why bother? Another day.
No matter how you slice it, you're still inconveniencing others for the sake of your time and justifying it by "oh i'm so busy busy busy busy" doesn't make you innocent.

Instead of penalising players why not rotate the dungeons offered for people to join. You can't tell me that a game like this only has one version of each dungeon running at any one time.

I'm not suggesting I agree with people who do this, but I wonder how many of those speaking out against it do speed-runs and the like. Because some of the tactics I've seen employed in speed runs are just as bad in terms of abusing the game in a way you're not meant to for your own gain. The same goes for FATEs such as DD before it was fixed.

I also don't withdraw and rejoin in seconds, I found out early on that you generally just get the same one you just left.

I believe that the person that will not commence, should be put in the back of the line, in which they will have to wait another 10-15 mins to get a Queue. If the same person does this consequently ( 3 times just to say) small penalty of 15 min no Queue. This way both parties get what they want out of it. If you are doing it like 10 times in a row, you are just being an @SS and need to get dropped off queue and put into time out for being a child. it's simple really.. Anyroad, this issue is nothing compared to SERVER/CLIENT latency issues. Lets make threads about real problems, lets get Mods to answer those threads instead. :/

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Originally Posted by Techro

I believe that the person that will not commence, should be put in the back of the line, in which they will have to wait another 10-15 mins to get a Queue. If the same person does this consequently ( 3 times just to say) small penalty of 15 min no Queue. This way both parties get what they want out of it. If you are doing it like 10 times in a row, you are just being an @SS and need to get dropped off queue and put into time out for being a child. it's simple really.. Anyroad, this issue is nothing compared to SERVER/CLIENT latency issues. Lets make threads about real problems, lets get Mods to answer those threads instead. :/

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You already get moved to the back of the queue for declining. Problem is that tanks get instant queue so back of the line is still instant to them. If you tried to pull that stunt as a DPS you'll quickly find that it doesn't work when it takes you 40 minutes before your queue even pops.

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Originally Posted by Curagaja

This situation is exactly the same as if I was never searching to begin with. I assume I do not have to explain the bold to you.

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When there is no server reservation queue, what you say is correct, although it still is annoying as hell.

But when there is a server reservation queue, what you're doing is to repeatedly throw people to the back of the reservation queue. During peak hours, that could extend people's waiting time for anywhere from 20~40 minutes.

I'm sure you have seen those 200min queue time screenshots. It's no joke. It happens during peak hour because the instance servers are always full.


I'm all for the 30-sec lockout each time you withdraw. If you have a valid reason to withdraw intentionally (i.e. not those who miss the Commence dialog and let it slip timing out) by clicking on Decline, then you sure will be away for more than 30 seconds.

Even when there was an instance reservation time, declining instances still hurts yourself a lot too. Let's say it takes 5 minutes to reserve an instance and 30 minutes to clear WP. Do you really think you'll get a 2/3 WP in 6 tries? I find it hard to believe a tank can get a 2/3 WP in 6 tries given there's really no incentive for a tank to leave at 2/3, so you still end up spending more time than just taking the first available spot. In the end, everyone loses, and the guy trying to cheat the system most likely loses the most because he has to fight all the other guys who are trying to cheat the system too.

So what are they doing? I've never noticed a percentage in the DF before.

lemme see if I understand it right: ppl want to join only for the final boss to "farm" their mstones and "get over with it" as fast as possible, even knowing it's capped at 300/week, just so they can run out of what to do faster and come to the forums to complain about lack of content? Well, give them that.

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Originally Posted by Frein

Why would't their time be more valuable to them than your time? It'd be pretty damn unusual if they cared about your time more than their own. Seriously, stop blaming the people and blame the system that incentivizes them to behave this way. It's SE's fault.

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I don't know... Maybe because they should have something called "empathy"? Or "morality"? Or perhaps that they shouldn't think that they're the center of the universe and that they can do whatever they want when they want and f*ck everyone else around them if they don't like it (3 other players in this case, where 3>1)? Who knows.

As a reminder (for those who forgot it), we don't have laws in real life just for the sake of having them, but because normal people know that certain things are bad and shouldn't be done. And a lot of us don't do those same things not because we could we punished, but simply because we're aware that they're wrong. Moreover, there's some things and behaviours that aren't exactly legally regulated either but that we know that are wrong too and that any decent person would never do. However, it seems that these same things don't apply to the Internet (?), where common sense and manners seem to be missing most of the time.

Yeah, keep saying that it's SE's fault if it makes you feel better.

Usually it is not just a tank that joins an in progress group, often it is a dps and or a healer as well when these pop. So multiple people will benefit from a in progress group.

If the change makes it so you get less myth by spreading it out to all the bosses in the zone I think many will either join in progress kill the boss you are on then drop or find some other way to cheese the system.

If they just add a third option to only join in progress groups then you will eliminate people trying to force the issue while still providing a service to those that are stuck in progress since we cant stop that.

If they impose a logout restriction from hitting withdraw I dont see this helping much since they have proven they dont mind waiting to get the in progress groups. It is not that these people are impatient, they really just dont want to do the whole dungeon to get the cap. What do they care if it takes 2 hours to find these groups.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

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Why would I have empathy/morality for random people that I don't even know nor care about? As a tank, I will fully take advantage of any situation that can make my life easier, and if it means burning people down to get on top, I will do it without hesitation. Stay mad.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Why would I have empathy/morality for random people that I don't even know nor care about? As a tank, I will fully take advantage of any situation that can make my life easier, and if it means burning people down to get on top, I will do it without hesitation. Stay mad.

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The moral of this story? Tanks are terrible people.

Ok not all but too many in this game. The lack of tanks has caused the ones there are to get an inflated ego and think the game revolves around them. When Im in a DF queue im usually on a different class leveling. So every time it pops i have to stop what im doing and change classes and hope during that time the tank doesnt withdraw. Usually cant get into WP/AK until a tank has withdrawn about 30 times before one actually stays. There needs to be at least a minimum 30 second penalty for withdrawing.

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Originally Posted by Camate

..we do not plan on giving penalties to these players who withdraw when you are getting ready to commence due to the fact that there is a possibility that players who do not have malicious intent could be penalized.

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Malicious intent or not, there should be a penalty for withdrawing. When you sign up for duty finder you know that when you get a group you need to be ready and enter the dungeon. If you sign up for it and are not ready that is that players fault no matter what their intent is. The penalty doesnt have to be extreme, but a short lockout of 30 seconds (i prefer 5 minutes) or so will at least stop these tanks form spamming it until they get an in progress and ruining the game for everyone else.

Theres no reason to allow these tanks to keep doing this because someone queued and was unprepared and couldnt accept. Because guess what? That DPS that withdrew is already being penalized. They now have to wait another 20-? minutes to get it to pop again. Even healers have waits of 5 minutes or longer. The only ones effected by a short lockout would be the tanks who abuse it.

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Originally Posted by TerryQ1967

As a player with limited time for full dungeon runs, my only option is to only accept a run at the stage that I can finish in time. Any action to stop this will to me only prove that SE only thinks of those with plenty of time on there hands. Casual players of which there are many pay the same amount of money to play as everyone else, so deserve to play the game to their time schedule. Again the little guy loses out.

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No offense, but if u cant do a 30-14 min or even 6 if u run garuda with a good pt, why play a mmorpg?

There should be a harsh penalty for withdrawing, simple as that. It boggles the mind how tanks can get away with this with no repercussion.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Why would I have empathy/morality for random people that I don't even know nor care about? As a tank, I will fully take advantage of any situation that can make my life easier, and if it means burning people down to get on top, I will do it without hesitation. Stay mad.

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It saddens me to see tanks like you, out there giving us a bad name. The anonymity of the internet does not mean you get to be a complete and total, worthless waste of oxygen. I'm sorry that your life is so shitty that you "need" an outlet like an MMO to treat people this way, because I'm pretty sure if you acted like that in real life you'd get your ass kicked pretty quick.

You can't clear a dungeon by yourself, you need them just as much as they need you. I'm on turn 5 in coils and yet I've had AK groups that couldn't kill the last boss because their dps was too low, or they just couldn't get a hang of the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Most people support the OP and basically everyone agrees that it's childish behavior except the people who behave like that themselves. Oh yeah, he totally lost. Haha.

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When you have a poor way of making an argument that makes you sound like a child, yeah, you lose.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

The penalty doesnt have to be extreme, but a short lockout of 30 seconds (i prefer 5 minutes) or so will at least stop these tanks form spamming it until they get an in progress and ruining the game for everyone else.

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so dramatic

having to wait 5 more minutes for a tank that doesnt decline queues is "ruining" the game

lol

I really don't think that punishing a population of players that is already small is going to have any desired effect. People might avoid the DF just because a punishment was implemented.

But people are finally outgearing content or people have just quit the game altogether. Either way you cut it, the success rate of groups has gotten a lot higher.

More in progress groups lately have been so bad at the game (theres a difference between being new and bad) that I can see why a player left their group. But before then, I get the impression that player that left was pretty terrible or the group was undergeared/had a really bad composition.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Why would I have empathy/morality for random people that I don't even know nor care about? As a tank, I will fully take advantage of any situation that can make my life easier, and if it means burning people down to get on top, I will do it without hesitation. Stay mad.

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Thanks for proving my point :) Flawless.

*Gives him a cookie, and then pats him on the back*

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Why would I have empathy/morality for random people that I don't even know nor care about? As a tank, I will fully take advantage of any situation that can make my life easier, and if it means burning people down to get on top, I will do it without hesitation. Stay mad.

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Oddly, I am amused and approve of this message.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

It's saddens me to see tanks like you, out there giving us a bad name. The anonymity of the internet does not mean you get to be a complete and total, worthless waste of oxygen......

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You really shouldn't care about the opinions of those who generalize off one or even a few people anyways. Just saying ;)

Its also not that anonymous. You can search for this player in game if you're on their server.

I still see no reason to blame a tank for taking advantage of an option the square enix implemented into the game. Its quite silly to strike at the branches and not the root.

Also, if you think the person you're quoting deserves to get their ass kicked for saying something then something is quite wrong with you and not them. That's pretty messed up. Despite the fact that you may disagree with them, its not enough to cause violence to them. Ever.