[Dev1008] Makeshift Jumping Implementation Poll

If you don't want to jump just don't jump when they implemented it

unless your real reason is "I don't want to see other jumping around me!" it should be fine

So since there are already two different threads (actually more, because everyone thinks that their post seems so important that it deserves a separate thread, apparently), you felt the need to open another?

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Originally Posted by Ceons

But its not an fps, its a platform/pc MMO and jumping is standard.

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Looks like it's not. At least according to this development team, and quite obviously many agree with them. Thankfully, I may add.

Ultimately seeing people jumping around in a MMORPG looks incredibly stupid, especially considering the fact that massive roegadyns in full armor have to jump the same height as lalafells with tiny stumps as legs, which would collide in an extremely jarring way with the realistic art direction of this game. Cartoonish games -> That way.

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Originally Posted by toshimoog

Everything you listed was added for terms of convenience. Jumping does not make anything more convenient. It would only satisfy a certain OCD condition related to pressing a jump button repeatedly, or satisfy the people who crossed over from World of Warcraft to trick them into thinking they are still playing the same game.

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What has this got to do with WoW? Every other non-SE fantasy MMO has jump.

I personally think being able to jump up or down a 3ft ledge is quite convenient.

Whatever, the people remaining in this game are either incredibly patient or fanboys who are blind to the reasons the vast majority of the people who bought the game quit. No point arguing with them.

What about a realistic jumping such as Monster hunter? you can jump over only small cliff (realistic height that human can do). and for bigger one, you have to climb it up slowly (but still better than walk around because your character is disable and can't climb it up at all )

note at poll:
In my opinion, I think this is unfair because you separate the people who want jumping into 2 posts (so the vote will be divided psychologically), but only have 1 post for people who not want jumping (get full vote).

I think the fair poll would be "Want jump" vs "No jump" first. and the next step for "unlimit" or "limit" come after the "Want jump" win.

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Originally Posted by Dizmo

What has this got to do with WoW? Every other non-SE fantasy MMO has jump.

I personally think being able to jump up or down a 3ft ledge is quite convenient.

Whatever, the people remaining in this game are either incredibly patient or fanboys who are blind to the reasons the vast majority of the people who bought the game quit. No point arguing with them.

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Really? Everyone quit because of the lack of jumping?

Or was it...
A horrible battle system that made crafting & gathering more enjoyable than fighting. Poor UI & controls. No AH. Very little content and the content that's there is boring. No Chocobos or other travel. The list goes on.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If you don't want to jump just don't jump when they implemented it

unless your real reason is "I don't want to see other jumping around me!" it should be fine

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That is my reason.

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Originally Posted by Dizmo

What has this got to do with WoW? Every other non-SE fantasy MMO has jump.

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WRONG! Ever played Atlantica? Guild Wars? Ryzom? Star Wars Galaxies? All of these are non-SE MMOs that didn't have jump and there are many more.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

So since there are already two different threads (actually more, because everyone thinks that their post seems so important that it deserves a separate thread, apparently), you felt the need to open another?

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Yes.

This thread combines the two existing thread and includes a middle ground along with a makeshift poll. This is a different thread that condenses those 3 parts into one thread.

If anything the originals should be buried while this one lives on.

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Originally Posted by Alise

What about a realistic jumping such as Monster hunter? you can jump over only small cliff (realistic height that human can do). and for bigger one, you have to climb it up slowly (but still better than walk around because your character is disable and can't climb it up at all )

note at poll:
In my opinion, I think this is unfair because you separate the people who want jumping into 2 posts (so the vote will be divided psychologically), but only have 1 post for people who not want jumping (get full vote).

I think the fair poll would be "Want jump" vs "No jump" first. and the next step for "unlimit" or "limit" come after the "Want jump" win.

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I gave the reason for the third option. There is always a gray area jump and no jump is too black and white to be the only questions on the poll.

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Originally Posted by Alise

note at poll:
In my opinion, I think this is unfair because you separate the people who want jumping into 2 posts (so the vote will be divided psychologically), but only have 1 post for people who not want jumping (get full vote).

I think the fair poll would be "Want jump" vs "No jump" first. and the next step for "unlimit" or "limit" come after the "Want jump" win.

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You're just upset that my thread is winning.

Also for those whining about the multiple threads thing... I made my thread because the other one is called "Petition to have jumping implemented", as online petitions are an incredibly childish and immature way to get things done, and the OP's post reflected only one side of the argument (if you can even call it a side). So, I made my thread to represent the other side of the leaf in a more civil, polite manner (note the "please" and lack of "petition").

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Originally Posted by Seraphite

You're just upset that my thread is winning.

.

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did you really just say that

wow

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Originally Posted by Dubont

WRONG! Ever played Atlantica? Guild Wars? Ryzom? Star Wars Galaxies? All of these are non-SE MMOs that didn't have jump and there are many more.

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That's because they are old.

It's evolution, baby!

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Originally Posted by Ilean

That's because they are old.

It's evolution, baby!

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lol i dont really care ether way but still funny

Atlantica is a turn-base MMORPG

Guild Wars 2 has jumping

and... Ryzom? Star Wars Galaxies? <<< meh

My idea is to make jumping be context sensitive. If you walk up to a cliff, you should see an exclamation mark (similar to when you're near Aetheryte), be able to type /jump or click "Jump" in the menu, thereby having your character jump down the the precipice below.

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Originally Posted by sirdayne

My idea is to make jumping be context sensitive. If you walk up to a cliff, you should see an exclamation mark (similar to when you're near Aetheryte), be able to type /jump, thereby having your character jump down the the precipice below.

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it can be looked at as "opening a door" of sorts"
most people arent against this type of use of jump, but the most vocal people who want jump dont want this, they wanna just be able to jump all over everything with no limitations(and some want it just to annoy people)

Because the environment has SOO much going for it right now, jumping would just take away from it

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Originally Posted by sirdayne

My idea is to make jumping be context sensitive. If you walk up to a cliff, you should see an exclamation mark (similar to when you're near Aetheryte), be able to type /jump or click "Jump" in the menu, thereby having your character jump down the the precipice below.

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This is what I want to see in-game also. It would solve both sides of the issues; you can still jump and get over things, but only at a logical point. Even if there wasn't a command to hit, it'd be nice if there was an animation when you ran off a small cliff or climb up a small thing. The game feels too slow paced (not in a bad way or anything) to add in a jump that you can do as often as you want.

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Originally Posted by anotherday

The game feels too slow paced (not in a bad way or anything) to add in a jump that you can do as often as you want.

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This ties in to my second point:

Secondly, character movement, despite what some may think, is not smoothed out. Adding jump requires them to smooth character animations and reactions between player input (controller or keyboard) and the character moving. This is big to me because I want to see boss encounters that involve more movement and positioning and I know I'm not going to see that based on what we have right now.

One is precipitated by the other. On-demand jump means they have to smooth out the rest of the things involving player movement, which in the long run will benefit the game because it'll give the creators the freedom to design boss encounters that require movement. Better movement also opens up other things, including better chances of successfully implementing things like vehicles (this is going to be a given seeing that one of the major players in the world is a technology-based empire) and mounted combat. There's so much to gain that to me it easily overrides the people who think jumping annoys them as is not "Final Fantasy".

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Originally Posted by sirdayne

My idea is to make jumping be context sensitive. If you walk up to a cliff, you should see an exclamation mark (similar to when you're near Aetheryte), be able to type /jump or click "Jump" in the menu, thereby having your character jump down the the precipice below.

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There are many others that would have it this way. Me being one of them.

Just to play devil's advocate here.. isn't setting up the three options here skewing the win to the non-jump camp since you have effectively split the jump supporters into two groups?

if jumping would give immersion and you want it a little realistic, they should add a penalty to the jump, like limited jump, but not as the OP suggested, but like depending on the stamina bar, and with every jump it will deduct, when it depletes, you'll need to wait for awhile to be able to jump again! :)

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Just to play devil's advocate here.. isn't setting up the three options here skewing the win to the non-jump camp since you have effectively split the jump supporters into two groups?

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To those who can't add the 2 together...

@op, i know what u meant there, but that option isnt a mid grey one because it only effect the white zone.

@seraphite , sorry to say your self assumption reply just make you l
ook immature. This is my opinion base on this topic only.
I could careless on what happen to those ego competition topics.

@wynn yes, i just point it out awhile ago. Anyone who take credit in psychology would know what wrong here (it is one of the trick private company like to do when they want result to be one favor )

People can vote both, but most will psychologically choose one.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Just to play devil's advocate here.. isn't setting up the three options here skewing the win to the non-jump camp since you have effectively split the jump supporters into two groups?

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That's odd, because I see it the other way around. People who are for jumping essentially voting for both forms. Either way you look at it, this poll is useless and I urge SE not to reference it when considering jump. If they want to make a poll they will.

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Originally Posted by Leeloo

To those who can't add the 2 together...

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Adding the two "want jump" sections together doesn't make sense if you read the 3 options.

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

Adding the two "want jump" sections together doesn't make sense if you read the 3 options.

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Sure it does. It adds up people who want some kind of jump. Though like MeowyWowie mentioned they could've voted for both so it's not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Leeloo

Sure it does. It adds up to people who want some kind of jump. Though like MeowyWowie mentioned they could've voted for both so it's not a big deal.

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Some kind of jump?

Not sure if you understand but the point of the 2 jump options is either "Unlimited Jumping" where you could jump anywhere and anytime you want or "Limited Jumping" where you could only jump at specific locations at specific times. If there wasn't a need for the limited jump option people wouldn't have liked it and would have liked the unlimited option instead and vice versa.

The fact that both jump options got liked means that people disagree on what kind of jumping should be available if implemented

Meowy has a point, however the people that liked both jumping options are probably only a handful.

Jumping command is not gonna work

going near the cliff, pressing Home, select "Jump" command....

just make the game look worse

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Jumping command is not gonna work

going near the cliff, pressing Home, select "Jump" command....

just make the game look worse

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stop acting like you understand how these games are actualy programmed

you seem to be one of the few who do not understand, you just dont put in a button to jump and it magicaly happens

theres a TON of work that goes behind it(and the most expensive part will be the animations involved)

All I think of when I read about people who are against the addition of a feature to this game is a hipster. Why would you act negatively toward a great addition to a struggling game, what do you have to gain from acting that way? People who don't want more features deserve the original crappy FFXIV they were tricked into buying.

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

Some kind of jump?

Not sure if you understand but the point of the 2 jump options is either "Unlimited Jumping" where you could jump anywhere and anytime you want or "Limited Jumping" where you could only jump at specific locations at specific times. If there wasn't a need for the limited jump option people wouldn't have liked it and would have liked the unlimited option instead and vice versa.

The fact that both jump options got liked means that people disagree on what kind of jumping should be available if implemented

Meowy has a point, however the people that liked both jumping options are probably only a handful.

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Yes, I understand the 2 different jumping options. But if one wanted to look at the poll as pro-jump vs anti-jump they simply need to add the 2 jump votes together. Makes sense to me...

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Originally Posted by Wilhelmina

All I think of when I read about people who are against the addition of a feature to this game is a hipster. Why would you act negatively toward a great addition to a struggling game, what do you have to gain from acting that way? People who don't want more features deserve the original crappy FFXIV they were tricked into buying.

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Great addition how? Nobody has said anything that makes jumping necessary or logical other than "I want it" or "all the new MMOs have it."

Scaling cliffs? You can do that already, making it a jump/fall animation rather than a strange spiderwalk doesn't change anything.

There is no use for a jump right now.

And I still would prefer the kind in FFXIII :( They could all really cool jumping animations for those.

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Originally Posted by Wilhelmina

All I think of when I read about people who are against the addition of a feature to this game is a hipster. Why would you act negatively toward a great addition to a struggling game

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Because it's not a great feature? It's not going to save the game? There's other important additions that can be added? Like Content and Battle/Class(job) system revisions?

What I don't get is why people think you just slap the feature in and it'll just instantly do everything. It's like slapping down a gun in an FPS without programming the ability to have it shoot.

Wow the people on this forum are dense.

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Originally Posted by Wilhelmina

Wow the people on this forum are dense.

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You're right.

I want my pet dog in the game because it's a new feature and all new features automatically make the game better even if they serve no purpose.

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Originally Posted by Wilhelmina

Wow the people on this forum are dense.

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on both sides of the arguement they are
ive stated it befoer

Jump is coming, period, regardless of what anti jump people want
Jump is a very low priority right now and is not coming anytime soon no matter how much you beg and whine, regardless of what pro jump people want

and there are alot of people who just dont seem to understand either of those points

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

on both sides of the arguement they are
ive stated it befoer

Jump is coming, period, regardless of what anti jump people want
Jump is a very low priority right now and is not coming anytime soon no matter how much you beg and whine, regardless of what pro jump people want

and there are alot of people who just dont seem to understand either of those points

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I find your post hypocritical.

No one knows for sure that it will or will not be in.

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Examination of the implementation of jumping(moved from Current Tasks as lower priority)
*Implementation dependent upon risk analysis

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Something to think about regarding their risk analysis.

How much money will it take to implement jump? Time is money right?
So it would take time to...
Code jump into the game (this includes whatever model changes are needed along with the button presses)
Get the motion captures for jump
Change whatever environment changes need to be made.
= Will spending this much time on jump bring in positive reviews and more subscribers?

Versus

Not implementing jump and spending that time to create (pick one)
bigger dungeons
better fights
more nms
more loot
more jobs
more classes
more story quests
more class quests
changes to crafting
changes to gathering

What will people pay for?

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

I find your post hypocritical.

No one knows for sure that it will or will not be in.



Something to think about regarding their risk analysis.

How much money will it take to implement jump? Time is money right?
So it would take time to...
Code jump into the game (this includes whatever model changes are needed along with the button presses)
Get the motion captures for jump
Change whatever environment changes need to be made.
= Will spending this much time on jump bring in positive reviews and more subscribers?

Versus

Not implementing jump and spending that time to create (pick one)
bigger dungeons
better fights
more nms
more loot
more jobs
more classes
more story quests
more class quests
changes to crafting
changes to gathering

What will people pay for?

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The people who would be working on the addition of jumping don't do most of what you just listed. I assume, unless they fired EVERYONE, certain people are assigned to do certain tasks on their dev team. Unless SE has one guy working on FFXIV all alone...

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Originally Posted by Arik

Perfect solution.

They can handle jump the same way they handle auto-follow.
When I 2-box, Character A is followed by Character B. When character A stops moving, character B stops moving on Character A's screen, but is running in place on Character B's screen. I'm not 100% positive, but this is probably because Character B isn't changing positions on the x-y plane...so there is no need to display a running animation on any other clients.
If SE was to make jump be a "z" function on an x-y-z plane, they could configure it so that players could either choose to see the "z" plane movement or not. This way, if you want to see jumping, you can do so. If you don't want to see jumping, you don't have to. I mean, we already see ridiculous clipping when players run up and around small hills, so the clipping produced from players that would be jumping wouldn't be all that different.

If you want to jump, you can jump.
If you don't want to jump, you don't jump, and you configure your client to not see other players jump.

Just my 2 cents.

Later all...go Yoshi!!

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It's brilliant. The hoppers could be frogs and the rest of us don't have to see boing boing boing all day. <3 this idea.

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Originally Posted by Wilhelmina

The people who would be working on the addition of jumping don't do most of what you just listed. I assume, unless they fired EVERYONE, certain people are assigned to do certain tasks on their dev team. Unless SE has one guy working on FFXIV all alone...

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It's not just about the people.

It's about the resources.