Auto-attack is a step backward.

Although I'm not for or against the introduction of auto-attack, I'm going to get a good laugh if they implement it and everyone starts complaining about how they implement it because.... well that's what this forum does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amused

I loved FFXI and I'm all for making this game more like an HD version of FFXI but this is one of those features that I think is just dated. Especially an auto-attack system like the one in XI. Auto-attack makes the player even less involved and you ultimately end up just watching your character more often than you are actually playing.

---

Would you rather be forced to sit in your chair and press one button over and over again mindlessly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toshimoog

Would you rather be forced to sit in your chair and press one button over and over again mindlessly?

---

Its all mindless if you think about it, whether its auto attack or mashing #1, the part that has you thinking is the actual battle itself and how you adapt to it. As a gladiator it doesn't matter that you are clicking #1 or waiting for auto attack - what matters is how you hold hate, how you pull the link off your mage, how to use your stamina because tbh even in the game's current state some mob fights require some strategy to take down and I play Gladiator and I hardly attack the mob, I'm always concentrating my efforts on keeping hate on me, therefore whether its auto attack or mash #1, the end result is the same.

What FFXI did wrong is that it didn't give you many abilities to work with, FFXIV already solves that problem and has the player himself, no matter the class he chose, much more involved. Hell they even did good by the mages and built them around a system which allows the mages to attack the mob, throw buffs and heal all at the same time which is just awesome imo. Whether there is auto attack in between all the "hands on stuff" or mashing #1, they're both mindless, its what you do around the battle itself that counts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amused

I loved FFXI and I'm all for making this game more like an HD version of FFXI but this is one of those features that I think is just dated. Especially an auto-attack system like the one in XI. Auto-attack makes the player even less involved and you ultimately end up just watching your character more often than you are actually playing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the current system is spectacular but it's definitely miles ahead of an auto-attack system.

I can't be the only one who feels this way. I'm very afraid for the future of this game if the auto-attack change goes through.

---

It wont be just like XI though. Although the new battle system designer is the lead from FFXI, he's stated it'll be faster and still different from XI. Remember, no FF fighting system is exactly the same as the last.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirdayne

I can see how not having Auto-Attack is a headache for tanks and DDs. It's not like Conjurer is spamming Spirit Dart constantly; that might even get in the way of normal spellcasting. Disciples of Magic don't need Auto-Attack nearly as much as the Disciples of War do.

---

wait until higher level CON where your only use is Cure. You'll want something to do when you aren't curing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

wait until higher level CON where your only use is Cure. You'll want something to do when you aren't curing.

---

Yes I can see it now...1....1......1........1.........1...........cure.......1.......1. Yes you're right, auto attack would totally ruin it.

I don't see how auto-attack is a step backward. I for one enjoy talking to my party, and even as a quick typist, it is really pressing to communicate how it is now. Along with that, this will actually motivate people to use abilities since right now it's a rather big sacrifice giving up 1-2 attacks in exchange for a buff (for a 30 second battle nonetheless).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mack

Yes I can see it now...1....1......1........1.........1...........cure.......1.......1. Yes you're right, auto attack would totally ruin it.

---

No joke, before battle, I prep with 6..7...14(second row, #4). Then, my actions consist of 1...1...1...4(cure3)...1....1....8(Ws)...1....1....5(cure 2 or sac 2)....1...8...1...1...1...1...4..1..1..1..8..1.1.1.1. See the trend? lol

I don't see how auto attack would benefit a class like archer at all. If anything, it will gimp the job.

Don't believe me? Look at arc's skillset, you won't be able to use Multishot to it's full potential because you will always fire before you have a chance to stack the full effect. Raging Strike, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strike, and Scavenge will also be affected, as you will not be able to stack any of those skills like you can at present. When you are soloing, filling a target with arrows is the last thing you want to do when you are trying to bind a target, so the overall usefullness of Close shot and Shadowbind is gone, as you will unbind the target as soon as you auto attack.

In addition, arcs are heavily dependant on ammunition, once your quiver runs out, you are down to throwing rocks, which is only slightly better than doing no damage at all. As such, there may be times when you do not want to fire, such as when you have excess hate, or are hit with blindness, or another accuracy-down effect. Auto attack will just waste ammuntion, and with arrow prices as they are, it could make the cost of playing arc prohibitive on some servers.

I'm sure the pro-auto camp will say something like "they can set up arc like rng in FFXI." Unfortunately, that will not work because in FFXI, Rangers used either knives or axes as their main weapons, with the bow, crossbow, or gun treated as a sub-weapon. In FFXIV, your bow is your one and only weapon by default, meaning that it is subject to the same rules that govern melee weapons, which will include auto-attack once they add it. They may say "they can switch the bow to a sub-weapon." However, the class would no longer be an archer if they did that. It could also be that the developers intend to make ranged classes exempt from the feature, but I'm doubtful of that, since no mention of such was presented in Mr. Matsui's battle notes, or in yesterday's letter from Yoshi-P.

In the end, I'll have to wait and see how the devs set up the new battle engine, and whether or not it can do so without destroying archer's ability to solo or deal damage. I'm not so sure it can be done however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vanguard319

I don't see how auto attack would benefit a class like archer at all. If anything, it will gimp the job.

Don't believe me? Look at arc's skillset, you won't be able to use Multishot to it's full potential because you will always fire before you have a chance to stack the full effect. Raging Strike, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strike, and Scavenge will also be affected, as you will not be able to stack any of those skills like you can at present. When you are soloing, filling a target with arrows is the last thing you want to do when you are trying to bind a target, so the overall usefullness of Close shot and Shadowbind is gone, as you will unbind the target as soon as you auto attack.

In addition, arcs are heavily dependant on ammunition, once your quiver runs out, you are down to throwing rocks, which is only slightly better than doing no damage at all. As such, there may be times when you do not want to fire, such as when you have excess hate, or are hit with blindness, or another accuracy-down effect. Auto attack will just waste ammuntion, and with arrow prices as they are, it could make the cost of playing arc prohibitive on some servers.

I'm sure the pro-auto camp will say something like "they can set up arc like rng in FFXI." Unfortunately, that will not work because in FFXI, Rangers used either knives or axes as their main weapons, with the bow, crossbow, or gun treated as a sub-weapon. In FFXIV, your bow is your one and only weapon by default, meaning that it is subject to the same rules that govern melee weapons, which will include auto-attack once they add it. They may say "they can switch the bow to a sub-weapon." However, the class would no longer be an archer if they did that. It could also be that the developers intend to make ranged classes exempt from the feature, but I'm doubtful of that, since no mention of such was presented in Mr. Matsui's battle notes, or in yesterday's letter from Yoshi-P.

In the end, I'll have to wait and see how the devs set up the new battle engine, and whether or not it can do so without destroying archer's ability to solo or deal damage. I'm not so sure it can be done however.

---

You raise a good point. Shame they had to fuck it up from the beginning with the whole bound to one weapon deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vanguard319

I don't see how auto attack would benefit a class like archer at all. If anything, it will gimp the job.

Don't believe me? Look at arc's skillset, you won't be able to use Multishot to it's full potential because you will always fire before you have a chance to stack the full effect. Raging Strike, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strike, and Scavenge will also be affected, as you will not be able to stack any of those skills like you can at present. When you are soloing, filling a target with arrows is the last thing you want to do when you are trying to bind a target, so the overall usefullness of Close shot and Shadowbind is gone, as you will unbind the target as soon as you auto attack.

In addition, arcs are heavily dependant on ammunition, once your quiver runs out, you are down to throwing rocks, which is only slightly better than doing no damage at all. As such, there may be times when you do not want to fire, such as when you have excess hate, or are hit with blindness, or another accuracy-down effect. Auto attack will just waste ammuntion, and with arrow prices as they are, it could make the cost of playing arc prohibitive on some servers.

I'm sure the pro-auto camp will say something like "they can set up arc like rng in FFXI." Unfortunately, that will not work because in FFXI, Rangers used either knives or axes as their main weapons, with the bow, crossbow, or gun treated as a sub-weapon. In FFXIV, your bow is your one and only weapon by default, meaning that it is subject to the same rules that govern melee weapons, which will include auto-attack once they add it. They may say "they can switch the bow to a sub-weapon." However, the class would no longer be an archer if they did that. It could also be that the developers intend to make ranged classes exempt from the feature, but I'm doubtful of that, since no mention of such was presented in Mr. Matsui's battle notes, or in yesterday's letter from Yoshi-P.

In the end, I'll have to wait and see how the devs set up the new battle engine, and whether or not it can do so without destroying archer's ability to solo or deal damage. I'm not so sure it can be done however.

---

Simple solution: auto-attack toggle. If you want to play like the old way, you can (especially in the case of arc), if you want to use auto attack (which really is more useful to melee) you can. Don't see how that would add anything detrimental to the game at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhen

Simple solution: auto-attack toggle. If you want to play like the old way, you can (especially in the case of arc), if you want to use auto attack (which really is more useful to melee) you can. Don't see how that would add anything detrimental to the game at all.

---

You can not just simply put a toggle on auto attack and manual attack, too many variables change for that to be a viable solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bled

You can not just simply put a toggle on auto attack and manual attack to many variables change for that to be a viable solution.

---

Thanks for the input, while I don't object to the idea of a toggle, people seem to think that programming this stuff into the game without it conflicting with something else is easy, not so when you're talking about millions or hundreds of millions of lines of code.

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vesperia

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

---

They took the route of an easy buck; lazy is not synonyms of easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vesperia

So in other words, either way they implement it, it's still a pointless feature.

SE sure is fond of wasting time.

---

what it really is ,is all the WoW noobs bought our game an now are pissed because its not as ez as WoW so now they wasted 60-80$ for a game that did have good play style until novemeber left us an went for to WoW for there december release trolling our game saying stupid stuff on the surveys asking for dungeons like wtf i rather grind in dunes for hours then do a dungeon >:l WoW noobs get off our game >:l Thumbs up :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vesperia

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

---

Not exactly. An action-oriented combat system wouldn't really work for this game. To do such a system, they would have to essentially recode the entire game from the ground up. Mobs would have to change (Abilities, behavior, stats, everything), the battle system would have to be re-done AGAIN, UI would have to be re-done AGAIN, etc etc etc. This isn't the type of game for that type of battle system and it never was from the start. It doesn't mean that they have lazy developers, it just means that they didn't want that in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nemo5990

what it really is ,is all the WoW noobs bought our game an now are pissed because its not as ez as WoW so now they wasted 60-80$ for a game that did have good play style until novemeber left us an went for to WoW for there december release trolling our game saying stupid stuff on the surveys asking for dungeons like wtf i rather grind in dunes for hours then do a dungeon >:l WoW noobs get off our game >:l Thumbs up :D

---

this game is easier than WoW =\

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vesperia

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

---

considering versus is not out, no details of the battle system is revealed, nor can it ever approach the longevity of an MMO. Stop dumping shit and rational.

The biggest against Manual attack is a dumb AI.

Pattern Win, button mashing = win with carpal tunnel syndrome
Button Win, auto attacking = win without carpal tunnel syndrome

If you make a PvP oriented game where dumb AI bashing past time is replaced by a player that can see patterns and counter it, you can make a case.

FF14 has no PvP nor has interest in any reasonable time table. Reason battle system is crap and annoying instead of just crap.

AA goes a long way in making battles fun and strategic. Instead of more buttons, more thinking. You don't need more moves to make it more intelligent. In fact it brings intelligence down due to multi-tasking unnecessarily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kukurumei

considering versus is not out, no details of the battle system is revealed, nor can it ever approach the longevity of an MMO. Stop dumping shit and rational.

The biggest against Manual attack is a dumb AI.

Pattern Win, button mashing = win with carpal tunnel syndrome
Button Win, auto attacking = win without carpal tunnel syndrome

If you make a PvP oriented game where dumb AI bashing past time is replaced by a player that can see patterns and counter it, you can make a case.

FF14 has no PvP nor has interest in any reasonable time table. Reason battle system is crap and annoying instead of just crap.

AA goes a long way in making battles fun and strategic. Instead of more buttons, more thinking. You don't need more moves to make it more intelligent. In fact it brings intelligence down due to multi-tasking unnecessarily.

---

Wait, so you think SE should keep implementing bad AI?

Stupid AI...

Smart!

Strategy is nothing more then a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal. with both manual and auto attack you have strategies so can we get off the whole one having more strategy then the other argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

this game is easier than WoW =\

---

nah WoW is easier u dnt have limits to how many quests u can do a day plus they do these dum things called raid which u level up fast on i played WoW for a week straight an got level 50 ez FF>WoW FF14 may not be the hardcore Difficulty FF11 was but its still harder then WoW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kukurumei

considering versus is not out, no details of the battle system is revealed, nor can it ever approach the longevity of an MMO. Stop dumping shit and rational.

The biggest against Manual attack is a dumb AI.

Pattern Win, button mashing = win with carpal tunnel syndrome
Button Win, auto attacking = win without carpal tunnel syndrome

If you make a PvP oriented game where dumb AI bashing past time is replaced by a player that can see patterns and counter it, you can make a case.

FF14 has no PvP nor has interest in any reasonable time table. Reason battle system is crap and annoying instead of just crap.

AA goes a long way in making battles fun and strategic. Instead of more buttons, more thinking. You don't need more moves to make it more intelligent. In fact it brings intelligence down due to multi-tasking unnecessarily.

---

im pretty sure im gonna get that shit anyways ive been playing since i was 4 sonic onto mario allstars FTW :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nemo5990

nah WoW is easier u dnt have limits to how many quests u can do a day plus they do these dum things called raid which u level up fast on i played WoW for a week straight an got level 50 ez FF>WoW FF14 may not be the hardcore Difficulty FF11 was but its still harder then WoW

---

Wrong. FF14 is easier than WoW, but it takes more time to do things. Fatigue doesn't make the game harder, but it makes it last longer. As it stands, killing normal mobs is easier and NMs is hella easier. No doubt that WoW is easy (solod to 70 in 2 weeks as a rogue nightelf and another week after WotLK to get to 80) but 14 really is easier. Level limitations do not equal difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

Wrong. FF14 is easier than WoW, but it takes more time to do things. Fatigue doesn't make the game harder, but it makes it last longer. As it stands, killing normal mobs is easier and NMs is hella easier. No doubt that WoW is easy (solod to 70 in 2 weeks as a rogue nightelf and another week after WotLK to get to 80) but 14 really is easier. Level limitations do not equal difficulty.

---

i guess it takes hell alot longer to level any class from 1-50 on FF14 just not as long as FF11 5good hours just to level 1-15 in any of the starter zones solo :l WoW is a cookie cutter game though an id be sooo mad if SE trys to make that into FF14
i even bought collectors an everything even had to wait 1day cuz website was being conjested as they said lol

To people complaining about the coming auto attack...

Do you HONESTLY enjoy mashing your button to spam light thrust or w/e maina ttack you have over and over again?

I would LOVE for the basic attack tobecome automated sao I can pay MORE attention to the skills and timing of my spells.

I dont think FFXIV needs a combat system.

They should replace the combat system with parley so crafters can participate.

No point making a combat system because I want to be able to chat with my LS (this is a social game after all), so a parley system would make more sense.

FF has never really been a franchise about combat anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

Level limitations do not equal difficulty.

---

Neither does how fast or slow the leveling process is...

I'm curious as to see how they will implement it. With such a negative reaction from the majority of the community, it surprises me that they haven't scrapped it. Yoshida must firmly believe that it's going to improve the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asmeret

I'm curious as to see how they will implement it. With such a negative reaction from the majority of the community, it surprises me that they haven't scrapped it. Yoshida must firmly believe that it's going to improve the game.

---

Well it's about half and half (for and against)

And obviously we don't know how it works. Players can say they hate something but until they use it in practice, they wont really know for sure.

Majority? I hardly see he majority against this. Just a vocal minority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

Neither does how fast or slow the leveling process is...

---

I never said that it did. If you read the entire post, you will notice that I mentioned how easy it is to kill mobs in 14. I do realize that I didn't mention how easy WoW's mobs are but rest assured that they don't fall quite as quickly as 14's.

The only main thing I can think of to compare having auto-attack or not is this:

Being able to chat while battling. Currently, you don't really have time to do anything except click the mouse button, the 1 key, or the enter key/confirm button on the gamepad over and over. If we have auto-attack, sure, you might be able to let the character battle for you if it's not too demanding on your TP skills, but at least during that time you can chat with your linkshell or friends, or heck, even have time to take a bite out of a snack you have. You can reply to a text you get during a battle. I would rather have a few seconds of free time in between TP skills or job abilities to be able to reply to something in linkshell chat, rather than be forced to click 'attack' over and over and miss out on conversations.

I think having auto-attack would let you have more fun and more freedom. Just my own opinion, of course.

I think it's a step back, too, but I have faith that the dev team can make it work, given the philosophy YoshiP mentioned of fostering high level, strategic play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I think it's a step back, too, but I have faith that the dev team can make it work, given the philosophy YoshiP mentioned of fostering high level, strategic play.

---

I think late 90's gameplay is a little more of a step forward than early 80's gameplay, personally.

Any auto attack system can only help feed a more tactical prosses in battle. Communication is easier as is executing more precise manuevers such as setting of spells/skills with precise timing because we are not concerned if we are hurting DPS with not swinging or using stamina effectivley enough.

Just my take on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

I never said that it did. If you read the entire post, you will notice that I mentioned how easy it is to kill mobs in 14. I do realize that I didn't mention how easy WoW's mobs are but rest assured that they don't fall quite as quickly as 14's.

---

What I'm getting at is that its pointless to gauge a game's difficulty by how long it takes you to level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

What I'm getting at is that its pointless to gauge a game's difficulty by how long it takes you to level.

---

and I agree. I never disagreed with this on anything that I posted o.o

I'm not really fussed with auto attack either way myself, though to much like FFXI's System could be a bad move.
As long as they don't go for a more generic mmo style cool down on actions and lose the Stamina Gauge (as its one of the few aspects of the game that gives it any Final Fantasy feel to me atm and a good feature imo), I cant see auto attack actively hurting the game in any meaning full way

(I'm playing catch up on all the patch notes and changes since I stopped playing, and started again this week but that's how the latest letter came across, if I'm wrong please correct me.)

I never really had an instance where I was spamming 111111 alll the time. The only time I had that problem was in behest, with 15 people... but that's gone. If they made mobs harder and jobs more defined, we could have stayed with this battle system. But nope, the majority voted (and left)