PLD is a waste on anything other than Titan and Coil.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

http://i.imgur.com/NAxGqrz.gif

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Crappy gifs don't make up for the lack in logic, bro.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/28a4cd362...lh1io1_250.gif

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Crappy gifs don't make up for the lack in logic, bro.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/28a4cd362...lh1io1_250.gif

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But they do make up for your lack of reading comprehension. And, I mean, come on. Benedict Cumberbatch. Ain't nothin' crappy about something with that man in it.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

But they do make up for your lack of reading comprehension. And, I mean, come on. Benedict Cumberbatch. Ain't nothin' crappy about something with that man in it.

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Ad hominem fall back when proven wrong.

Funny part is, I didn't even say it. You contradicted yourself with two different posts.

#didittoyourself #dontcareaboutcumberbatch #notpartofthehivemindredditclubforcumberbatch

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Indicative of player skill/class. Paladins can't keep up with Warrior damage when the proper skill rotations are being used; especially if the paladin is attempting to hold agro on Titan and warrior is free to dps. I've parsed some pretty damn good damage running warrior and marauder against equally DL geared DPS. The idea that Paladins can keep up with the DPS of a warrior playing properly while maintaining agro on a monster is a fiction.

I'm still working on gear, but I want to get it to the 250 dps point I've seen some DPS geared Marauders dish out when off tanking.

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Apples to oranges. A WAR doing dps while not tanking is obviously going to be higher than a PLD doing dps while tanking. The 20% damage reduction hits a PLD and if the WAR doesn't have to tank they don't run vengeance.

You are still not going to approach the dps of a well played DPS, and the DPS of an Off Tank PLD is actually very close (though they will run out of TP very quickly, or they will pull aggro).

The point is that while tanking, the difference between a properly played WAR and a properly played PLD is quite small. Between 5-20% depending on how frequently you are using inner beast, whether you are using Unchained at all, and how you are using berserk (i.e. only to buff inner beasts or as general aggro/threat increases).

A 20% difference will be extremely noticeable in solo content. It will be less noticeable in a 4 man where the healer is also dpsing considering you out-gear the content. It will be virtually unnoticeable in endgame content where you have 4 dps putting out ~200 dps each.

P.S. you want to talk about fiction, let's talk about 250 DPS for a marauder. There is no way a marauder will even outdps a WAR, given the Marauder will be limited to Garuda or a crafted weapon, which will be significantly less damage than Bravura +1.

#1 - It's perfectly obvious why you go out of your way to put Warriors on a pedestal by the way you conduct yourself in this thread. For you, it's all about the fight. You sort of make it a point to become adamantly aggressive without need. All you're looking to do is get shots off.

#2 - I could have made it a point to say, "Well, then I guess you didn't read the very next sentence after the single one you quoted back to me, which addressed the very thing your comment in reply to my one sentence tried to belittle and clarified my two statements and the reasons for them, so if you're going to cherrypick your fights, make better choices", but then that would have been an attempt from me to actually engage you. Based on 8 pages of comments in here, you're not actually looking to engage. You're looking to do some kind of Warrior strut with a puffy chest. Engagement with you is irrelevant and pointless (which makes me roll my eyes at myself for even typing this out in the first place, because I'm too stubborn to let stupidity get that last word in).

#3 - I find it funny when people sometimes throw around "ad hominem" improperly.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

P.S. you want to talk about fiction, let's talk about 250 DPS for a marauder. There is no way a marauder will even outdps a WAR, given the Marauder will be limited to Garuda or a crafted weapon, which will be significantly less damage than Bravura +1.

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http://xivdb.com/?item/1817/Allagan-Battleaxe

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images...1665/image.jpg

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

#3 - I find it funny when people sometimes throw around "ad hominem" improperly.

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You're the only one remarking about character, still not coming off as an educated poster yet however.

I'm the only one bringing up sufficient justifications and examples to their argument. I'm still waiting for you to do the same.

#youwont #itsfunnytoyoubecauseyoudontrealizeyouredoingit

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Originally Posted by wonka11

You're the only one remarking about character, still not coming off as an educated poster yet however.

I'm the only one bringing up sufficient justifications and examples to their argument. I'm still waiting for you to do the same.

#youwont #itsfunnytoyoubecauseyoudontrealizeyouredoingit

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You mean examples such as being told by a healer that your opinion, based on no applicable experience because you've leveled your own Conjurer to an impressive lv3, that healing Warriors is easier than healing Paladins flies directly in the face of actual healers dedicated to that role saying otherwise, and your response, with all of your non-experience with which to counter, is that they're bad and wrong? Yes, you've brought up so many sufficient examples and justifications.


EDIT: Nice touch with the new hashtag theme you have going.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

http://xivdb.com/?item/1817/Allagan-Battleaxe

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images...1665/image.jpg

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find me a profile with someone who has it, fool.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

find me a profile with someone who has it, fool.

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Someones just a tad angry about being proven wrong. Tell me more about your extensive knowledge of this game and whats possible.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

based on no applicable experience because you've leveled your own Conjurer to an impressive lv3EDIT: Nice touch with the new hashtag theme you have going.

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Do you believe in the theory of relativity because you've got a doctorate in physics, or because you're taking someone with a doctorate in physics word for it?

#priceless #gotem #logic

Warriors while tanking will do 15-30% more single target damage than Paladins will while tanking. As the number of targets increases, so does that percentage.
Warriors DPSing single targets will do about the same damage as Paladins DPSing (but only if you give the PLD the benefit of the WAR's debuff). Again, as targets increase, so does Warrior damage.

but...

Paladins have the advantage in effective hitpoints and ability to reduce incoming damage.

Both tanks are viable in Coil right up until Turn 5. Warriors will require slightly more healing, but fights will be over slightly faster as well, reducing the number of chances for things to go pear-shaped.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Someones just a tad angry about being proven wrong. Tell me more about your extensive knowledge of this game and whats possible.

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You linked an item dropped by Twintania. Nobody can acquire this item right now because Twintania has not been defeated legitimately at all.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

You linked an item dropped by Twintania. Nobody can acquire this item right now because Twintania has not been defeated legitimately at all.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

P.S. you want to talk about fiction, let's talk about 250 DPS for a marauder. There is no way a marauder will even outdps a WAR, given the Marauder will be limited to Garuda or a crafted weapon, which will be significantly less damage than Bravura +1.

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Still looks relevant to me based on their comment. The funny thing about words when constructed into a sentence which builds into a concept is that all parts are subject to a review to their claim to knowledge.

Read up on Descartes bro, might do ya some good.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Descartes.jpg

Hash tagging in threads is pretty lame...

wonka, before you engaged in tomfoolery with some other posters, I agreed w you. Dealing damage is essential for warriors, end of story. The warrior reacts to situations in battle while tge paladin excels at preempting things.

to say that one is strictly better than the other is silly. Both can do most content, but in different ways while excelling at different things

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Still looks relevant to me based on their comment. The funny thing about words when constructed into a sentence which builds into a concept is that all parts are subject to a review to their claim to knowledge.

Read up on Descartes bro, might do ya some good.

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The implied context of the discussion is progressing through current content. And thus, given that the axe drops at the very end of current content, you may not use it to peform the goal of getting to the end of said content. So, for all intents and purposes, that axe does not exist within the implied context of the conversation.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

ERMAGERD BIG PIKCHUR AM KEWL!!!!!11111!!!!!oneoneoneone

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right...

This thread is inane and you should all feel ashamed for participating in this "discussion" of "facts". <_<

Oh well, time to spite a few tanks by spamming Medica II. You brought this upon yourselves. <3

I wouldn't say PLD's are a waste on everything else, but it's situational like you said. Just like in many other games. Each tank has its strong suit.

I'm sure once CT comes out Wars will be on par with PLD for end game stuff. PLD's excel in minimizing damage and single target tanking, wars are good for weaker encounters that are higher in numbers.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Hash tagging in threads is pretty lame...

wonka, before you engaged in tomfoolery with some other posters, I agreed w you. Dealing damage is essential for warriors, end of story. The warrior reacts to situations in battle while tge paladin excels at preempting things.

to say that one is strictly better than the other is silly. Both can do most content, but in different ways while excelling at different things

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The problem most people have is the respective ability of the WAR and PLD to serve the role of a tank.

The primary role of a tank is to hold threat and not die. DPS is secondary.

PLD doesn't appear to have much of a problem holding threat and are better at not dying. This is ignoring the other tools they have that directly cater to most current content, aka spammable stun + a silence. A WAR's special tools (extra HP, reduced healing debuff, and the ability to bind a target while it's being DPS'd) is not currently useful for any real progression content, which adds a little salt to the wound.

This is another reason for WAR is best suited for being the off tank. A WAR has more damage then a PLD that is true. But.. a PLD has self heals. Though the self heals does not do a high amount of healing. It is enough to self sustain in the case the WHM is raising a party member. Plus why would you want a PLD as a secondary tank when the damage output is lower. Bit again both has a purpose and a reason and some better then others. But really. Do we need this? But honestly a PLD has CNJ and GLA. and because of the CNJ cross over this is best as the main tank.. Honestly I have both a PLD and a MRD and I like them both.

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

Its ok Guys..

WAR is better when...

You are fully geared and running mind numbing content that does not matter.
Go back and do the level 15 instances as a WAR.. You'll be awsome.


I have to say.. when running AK, i run with a SCH most of the time, he does DMG the entire instance in cleric stance up to last boss. his pet does all the healing.

I take my WAR in.. i do a bit more dmg.. but now the healer has to actually heal.

Must better to take a war still ? Meh.


But hey. im glad WAR's have learned how to play.. Go do lower content you already out gear and your set.

50 WAR - 50 PLD for myself, i dont find many uses for my WAR these days except for amusement.

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And the most douchey comment of night goes to

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Originally Posted by Exstal

As a SCH, I hate healing Warrior. Simple as that, I actually HAVE to heal them instead of be lazy like I can with Paladin.

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Muffin you have to actually heal? Why not just play a SMN and do some actually dps. My sch buddy prefers to heal my warrior then my pld.

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Originally Posted by Mazley

And the most douchey comment of night goes to

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He's exactly right, though.

That's why my WAR w/ +1 relic has a 30 STR allocation. Because it is so sub par in Coil that it's not worth taking, and this lets me do Wanderer's Palace / AK more quickly for tomestones (and honestly a scholar with Eos out will not need to direct heal me unless I pull 2-4 packs of mobs, can't handle 5 though).

This thread is technically right: the place where WAR excels is in content that the WAR overgears by a significant margin, i.e. content that does not present a problem for either class.

It's like the tradeoff for not being able to MT anything is being able to clear inconsequential content slightly faster.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

He's exactly right, though.

That's why my WAR w/ +1 relic has a 30 STR allocation. Because it is so sub par in Coil that it's not worth taking, and this lets me do Wanderer's Palace / AK more quickly for tomestones (and honestly a scholar with Eos out will not need to direct heal me unless I pull 2-4 packs of mobs, can't handle 5 though).

This thread is technically right: the place where WAR excels is in content that the WAR overgears by a significant margin, i.e. content that does not present a problem for either class.

It's like the tradeoff for not being able to MT anything is being able to clear inconsequential content slightly faster.

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Right or wrong doesn't matter. Still sounded like an elitist boob

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Originally Posted by Mazley

Muffin you have to actually heal? Why not just play a SMN and do some actually dps. My sch buddy prefers to heal my warrior then my pld.

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Your SCH buddy is 1/100. Funny thing is, I leveled it to carry a Warrior. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

War is better at multiple target control, pld is better at single target control.

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Not completely true, I've yet to run into a PLD that can better control 1 single target than me (assuming you're referring to hate) I can even control when the PLDs take over hate on a boss (Great for hate swapping). I can also do this without Defiance and with them on Shield Oath. Although, I must say, some PLDs will completely dominate me if I were to not use Defiance. Just a matter of how skilled you are i guess :/

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Originally Posted by Mazley

Muffin you have to actually heal? Why not just play a SMN and do some actually dps. My sch buddy prefers to heal my warrior then my pld.

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Well when you heal Dungeon content you really should be spending most of your time DPSing. A PLD allows you to do that much more comfortably, while a WAR will simply drop your DPS because you have to spend more time healing them.

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Originally Posted by wonka11

Do you believe in the theory of relativity because you've got a doctorate in physics, or because you're taking someone with a doctorate in physics word for it?

#priceless #gotem #logic

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You realize that, with your example, you have neither qualification and thus have no room to talk at all, right? By your example, you don't have the doctorate in physics and you are explicitly rejecting the word of those with that doctorate.

Take it away, Takei.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yytbDZrw1jc

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

In Garuda as off tank the other night we had a very skilled player with Sphairai+1 and full DL(literally everything he had on was DL.) and at the end of the fight, with LB3 which he said did 18k, he was at 80k damage, and I was in second at 66k damage, followed by a relic/mostly dl blm at 62k. That's with popping defiance for sisters pop and holding both of them until they were dead. I can't imagine PLD could compete that closely with a +1 relic full DL monk in any situation ever.

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Wait, did you just claim to have beaten all of your DDs in that run?

So you are saying if sword does 40 damage ill actually do 5 range damage? Hmm how did this go I forget.

Wait, wait, wait, guys... Can someone explain again why WAR does more dmg than PLD?

Haven't seen anything on paper that actually points to this.

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

Lol at all of these people who miss the point entirely. This isn't WAR VS PLD OH MY GOD WARRIOR IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN PALADIN YOU NOOBS!
This is saying that for easier content, the extra defenses of PLD are not needed, where as the extra damage of Warrior is a very nice thing to have. People on these forums enjoy reading in between lines and picking out tiny segments to tear apart to help themselves feel better about whatever it is that burdens them, whether it be in real life or in a video game.

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Actually, you're still wrong - because PLDs have roughly 25% more mitigation than WARs; and can multipull a pack more than WARs.

Actually the extra defenses of a PLD are much better for a speedrun than a WAR. If you're running a WHM, less time spent healing means more time Holying. 260 potency Holys >>>> Overpower with the odd Steel Cyclone.

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Originally Posted by Sheapy

Actually the extra defenses of a PLD are much better for a speedrun than a WAR. If you're running a WHM, less time spent healing means more time Holying. 260 potency Holys >>>> Overpower with the odd Steel Cyclone.

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Man I had totally forgotten about cyclone. What a worthless ability.

Watching this reminded me of this thread.

I am confused at what purpose this thread serves? So what if WAR tanks are superior for everything prior to Titan and BC? Does that mean PLD shouldn't be considered for runs anymore because WAR are superior to them in damage?

Because he wants a Positive thing for WAR.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

pretty much. with 2 fully relic +1 and some myth gear 2 dps are gonna smash everything in ak so fast anyway warrior extra 20dps wont make any real change.

Oh you finished in 24 minutes to my 26 minutes? Do I really care?

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By the math above, 10 AK runs would equal 240 minutes on a WAR, 260 on PLD. Thats a 20 minute difference. 20 minutes, Do i really care? ..Yes.

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Originally Posted by DartFx

By the math above, 10 AK runs would equal 240 minutes on a WAR, 260 on PLD. Thats a 20 minute difference. 20 minutes, Do i really care? ..Yes.

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The previous statement shouldn't apply. Since the healer can't DPS since the Warrior needs to be healed every 0.5s, it mean the dps averages out to be the same as Paladin always in Shield Oath.

tl;dr?
STR war + normal healer = Shield Oath PLD + DPS healer

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Originally Posted by Ruminate

Watching this reminded me of this thread.

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Yeesh, I wish all my dungeon runs were that quick. Suppose I can only hope when I just stick to the Duty Finder, though. ><

And what's with the japanese getting the traditional -ra -ga extensions to their spells? I want my Cura and Aerora, damn it!