Elitism and How It Is Ruining The Gaming Community [Discussion, Feedback, and Rants]

If someone is new to a dungeon, just explain the battles and have patience, if you wipe then it's cool, you will get it on the next try. Or the one after that :) Getting a feel for the battle and the party you are with are important after all. This is a multiplayer game, so interact with the other players, chat and have fun! :) I remember I had a cas run, and towards the final boss we all decided to go all out in our Bikinis! Why? Because it's funny XD

It sucks when you don't have fast internet, you are instantly branded a noob and get told to get lost, even with full DL. Final Fantasy 14 is much less forgiving when it comes to internet speed.

~New Zealand internet: The bane of my existence in Titan~

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

If someone is new to a dungeon, just explain the battles and have patience, if you wipe then it's cool, you will get it on the next try.

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Time is money.
Money i spend every months to do things on this game that benefit my character.
Im not paying to wipe on things ive already done hundred times just because "i could be nice".
This will not happen unless you are a friend and a good one.


If im doing some content and judge the time im spending is making me play at a loss, ( i.e the reward isnt worth the time im spending ) such as over 3 wipes on a Primal fight or more than 35 mins in AK/WP, i just leave i dont care how it will impact the others PT members.
I still can mine during the 15mins lock out so im not afraid of it.

One. (unrelated)
Square enix, your forum design is terrible. I've lost 5 posts due to this shoddily designed forum layout.

I had some epic 6 paragraph post ready the first two times. But I really cant be bothered writing it out again. What I am goign to say simply is:

Set the example of the community you would like to see.

If you want to see a friendly community that is focused on interactions with new and old players, then be that way. But 'cussing' and being an elitest jerk will only end you up on eveyrones black lists. Guess what? most of those -new- players will end up as geared as you by the time 2.1 comes out. And -guess- whose groups you wont be in?

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Time is money.

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B-BUT THINK ABOUT THE NEW PLAYERS WHICH WILL ALL LEAVE BECAUSE OF YOUR ATTITUDE

Y-YOU'RE THE REASON THIS GAME WILL GO FREE 2 PLAY!


topkek, i wish more people would think like this.

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Originally Posted by Svalitz

Oh EXCUSE ME for not playing this game EXACTLY like the internet TELLS YOU TO. No thanks, I'll use my move sets how I want WHEN I want thank you.

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Oh the poor souls that have to run dungeons with you. Thank god you're on Kaktus

€: i can already see a ban flying my way for writing this

Balmung is especially bad for elitist behaviour being a legacy server

Literally, you won't get a pre-made team for anything unless you have full darklight and a relic (Save for HM primals, which are typically DL + weapon from the primal below); afterall why would they? - 90% of the players already have all level 50's and full gear before the server even launched. Why rub shoulders with newbies who (heaven forbid) might not yet have the dungeon on farm yet? (Though i have AK on farm but my lack of full DL and a relic means I must be teh suckzors)

If you're on a legacy server don't expect to actually play with your server-mates, it's DF way or no way (Unless of course, you already have full darklight and a relic, in which case you're in with the in crowd)


I've been practicing Titan HM and can reliably get deep into phase 5, but DF teams always end up with dead DPS every single time and can't finish the fight (Usually they eat a bomb or landslide); which is to be expected. But I can't take that education to a premade team on Balmung to finish the fight, because I need to prove that I've beaten titan at least once before before anyone'll let me on their team; so it's a catch 22

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Originally Posted by rswfire

I know what feature he is referring to, but that feature does not provide all cutscenes in their entirety. And I agree that it breaks with the immersion.

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I am strongly against people being forced to skip cutscenes, but every cutscene is in the inn, you just have to look for them. I have watched every cutscene from both CM and Prae in the inn. They are all there.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

What the... requiring level 70 armor to do a dungeon that drops level 60?

I haven't done those two yet, but makes no sense to me.

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You can this do this dungeon in level 40 armour if you want. Though your weapon proves the difference for the most part. If your tanking a PuG with people geared with DL and Relics, youll need a decent weapon to hold aggro. Personally, i've ran Ak as a tank with a lv47 weapon. Had a few hiccups with aggro here and there but nothing major. Other than that, you could run this with iLv45-55 weapons + AF gear no problem. All of the bosses are left to just paying attention and DPS checks.

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Originally Posted by MichiKyou

If you want to see a friendly community that is focused on interactions with new and old players, then be that way.

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Basically a rule for life. Set the example you want people to follow. You want a better community. Go into PuGs and be the nicest Son of a B*tch you can be. Support the newer people in the community by going into lower level dungeons and helping out newer people. I like doing it on my alts.

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or more than 35 mins in AK/WP, i just leave i dont care how it will impact the others PT members.

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35-40 minutes is my average for WP runs. Ran it 3 times yesterday, hadn't run it before. Got AF, some WP gear and 1 DL piece, no relic. And I consider it's decently fast. This is without wipes. Though the tank got 90000+5003 right before the Flan boss so we lost a big 3 minutes.

I just hit 50 last Friday.

My experience so far has been a mixed bag.

I've done @ 10 CM runs, 3 AK runs and 1 WP run.

I was rushed through CM my first try and with Prat, I actually had 2 tanks that were very patient so +1 to them both but, I do understand the issue.

If nobody from the FC is on, I pug and no doubt, the elitism with some of these folks is very apparent.

I would like to see an ignore feature implemented, like in Rift, where I could ignore that user and just not group with them anymore because, some of these guys have actually been THAT bad.

I've also had some great experiences with pugs and have made a few friends so, again, mixed bag.

I guess to put a more statistical approach to my (end-game) dungeoneering and experiences:

Duty finder runs have been generally positive:
- Of 4 titan HM attempts: x1 Tank bailed immediatly. x1 Had an abusive player. x2 Had patient players willing to practice
- Of 7 AK runs: x3 Could not clear demon wall. x2 Had amazingly nice players. x2 Were unremarkable
- Of 3 CM runs: x1 Had an abusive player. x2 The tanks bailed before the run was complete

Pre-mades on Balmung have been very negative:
- Of 3 titan HM attempts: x2 Had abusive players who bailed. x1 Didn't even begin*
- Of 1 AK run: x1 Had an abusive player who bailed

*On that particular run, the team leader upon seeing my less-than-100% DL gear forced the team to re-form and broadcast in Mor Dhona zone chat that I was a "filthy casual expecting to be carried and to black list me", which unfortunatly a surprising number of players actually obliged their request


Conclusion:
Generally, people are more polite and friendly on the duty finder. The elitists tend to stick to pre-mades so they don't have to rub shoulders with mere mortals. However, even then the Duty Finder displays a VERY high amount of toxic behaviour (38% of runs had players who were verbally abusive, and/or bailed from the run due to the team's perceived inadequacies), which is something that needs to be addressed urgently for the health of the game. A strange trend however is that people's behaviour tends to be worse towards members of their own server, than to total strangers they are unlikely to meet again; apparently in Eorzea shitting on your own doorstep is how the cool kids do it.

I just did a Prat run yesterday with a DF party. The guys were charging ahead right away while I and the other one were in the CS. So basically I just let them did all the work and collected my stones at the end. That's how I'm going to deal with the speed runners. If you're impatient and run ahead I'm more then happy to let you do all the fightings.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

*On that particular run, the team leader upon seeing my less-than-100% DL gear forced the team to re-form and broadcast in Mor Dhona zone chat that I was a "filthy casual expecting to be carried and to black list me", which unfortunatly a surprising number of players actually obliged their request

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Absolutely abhorrent behavior. While being well-geared for that particular instance is practically a must, I can't even comprehend treating another player that way. My gut reaction would be to take screenshots and report them.

Eletism sucks, but is sometimes neccessary. Not for AK or the other dungeons mind you.

I don't join shout parties asking for people with specific gear, or experience. IMO it's asking for trouble. However, I do join (and sometimes create) FC/LS groups asking for the same thing. In my experience, weather it's the doody finder, or shout groups people feel like they can treat other players like crap without repercussions. However, if your treat an LS or FC member like crap there are obvious repercussions. The other difference at least as far as the Titan fight and in some cases Garuda, is that with 7/8 people in the party with relics the 8th member can be carried. In that scenario, in my LS we rotate out the 8th person until we beat the fight for all in the LS who need it, or enough of the 7 relic players run out of time to play.

I think I've only ran into 1 pug group that had jerks in it, it was my very first AK run, I was still in full AF, 1 of the DPS was new too and I guess wasn't DPSing right. Well, first try on wall, we died, SMN raged, the tank who was in his FC didn't really say anything and we disbanded. . .lol

I queued up again, unchecked E and check J only, it was still my first time up to the wall pretty much, so we get to the wall kill it 1 go, I'm excited and jump on my seat, get to the last boss I got hit by the aoe thingy ( didn't die though!! hehe) so I go what the heck. . .so then I started watching. . .and put two and two together and hid behind the pillars XD so we killed it and I got my Stragwhatever body and I was happy! =D

All I could understand from that entire group were the w's they were typing before we got to the last boss hahaha, I think they were laughing because it was my first time since my map message thingy popped up >_<

Anyways, I never Q'd E ever again! hehe not a good excuse to do but heck, I killed Titan HM by just Queuing J and even got his book to boot! it took a lot of tries though. . .yeah, even Japanese Players can't 1 shot Titan HM >_<

morale of the story! um. . .I want to say don't Queue E but. . .I always get kind sad when I say another E in the party list other then my own so T~T. . .keep Queuing E! >_< um. . .it'll get better!. . I hope >_<

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*On that particular run, the team leader upon seeing my less-than-100% DL gear forced the team to re-form and broadcast in Mor Dhona zone chat that I was a "filthy casual expecting to be carried and to black list me", which unfortunately a surprising number of players actually obliged their request

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As Obsy said, absolutely abhorrent behavior. It's things like this that made me create the thread.

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Originally Posted by Masked

I would like to see an ignore feature implemented, like in Rift, where I could ignore that user and just not group with them anymore because, some of these guys have actually been THAT bad.

I've also had some great experiences with pugs and have made a few friends so, again, mixed bag.

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You could Black-list those players. B-list is not just for RMT spammers.

Elitism isn't ruining this game, it's in every game does that mean every game is ruined? -- If you've died at DW 3 times theirs no point in continuing as it's clear people aren't listening or they just can't put out enough damage.
It's the same with Garuda, if everyone says they know what to do and they wipe before she goes into phase2 theirs no point continuing as someone is lying and I'd rather not deal with liars.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Time is money.
Money i spend every months to do things on this game that benefit my character.
Im not paying to wipe on things ive already done hundred times just because "i could be nice".
This will not happen unless you are a friend and a good one.


If im doing some content and judge the time im spending is making me play at a loss, ( i.e the reward isnt worth the time im spending ) such as over 3 wipes on a Primal fight or more than 35 mins in AK/WP, i just leave i dont care how it will impact the others PT members.
I still can mine during the 15mins lock out so im not afraid of it.

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OK... so basically what you are saying:

You spend money, so you do not want to waste any second of the Time you are playing, since it is your money you spent on FFXIV... gotcha..oh wait;

You also will leave if you wipe certain times or a dungeon does require more time than you did expect and then you will leave and do not care about people which now have to spent Their TIME and Their MONEY, because some self-centered, greedy person just left their party?...

Dude seriously.. if i happen to get into a DF Party with you, i will watch every single cutscene, wipe on purpose and so on, because it is MY Time and MY Money... see what i did there?

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Originally Posted by Animation

Elitism isn't ruining this game, it's in every game does that mean every game is ruined? -- If you've died at DW 3 times theirs no point in continuing as it's clear people aren't listening or they just can't put out enough damage.
It's the same with Garuda, if everyone says they know what to do and they wipe before she goes into phase2 theirs no point continuing as someone is lying and I'd rather not deal with liars.

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People knowing what to do and being able to do it in practice are two different things. So they do not have to be lying saying they know what to do.
I also disagree with the general assumption that people don't get better. I've seen it countlessly in duty finder, pugs and raiding in other mmo's. People learn and you will get things down with persistence.

Does this mean it's worth the time to wait for other people to learn? Sometimes. Sometimes it isn't.
You can do what you want with your time, and I don't blame people for quitting, but do not assume that 3 wipes means that people are too dumb to learn.

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Originally Posted by Nero

OK... so basically what you are saying:

You spend money, so you do not want to waste any second of the Time you are playing, since it is your money you spent on FFXIV... gotcha..oh wait;

You also will leave if you wipe certain times or a dungeon does require more time than you did expect and then you will leave and do not care about people which now have to spent Their TIME and Their MONEY, because some self-centered, greedy person just left their party?...

Dude seriously.. if i happen to get into a DF Party with you, i will watch every single cutscene, wipe on purpose and so on, because it is MY Time and MY Money... see what i did there?

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I don't see what you did there. He said he's not afraid to leave when he comes to the conclusion that the time and effort of the run isn't enough to warrant continuing.
He has that right. You can't control what other people do or value, and it is not your business to.
Telling people they are obligated to stay in a group they don't want to is just as bad as ranting over how fail and useless another player is.
BOTH are too caught up with what other people are doing.

Leaving is only an issue in Trials anyway where you can't find a replacement.

I'm usually a very patience player. I don't expect others to be. People can get better, no one is obligated to wait for them to. Middle of the road.

Here is a fun fact for you guys, if you see someone shouting to put together a group, especially with stringent requirements they are most like a bad player and far from what you would call an elitist or pro-gamer. These people fall into a few categories:
- Anti-social jerk who cannot get with a decent FC due to being a ragequitter with a poor attitude
- Wannabe elites who often times if you actually track them down lack some of the very gear they are requiring of others (happens more than you think)
- Desperate people that have geared up a bit but lack the skills to clear the content and hope to get carried.

All of the best players on any server have already formed a solid group and rarely if ever need to actually shout for members. This is not a one player game, acting like a tool will not get you anywhere and it would behoove everyone to actually act like an adult and find other like-minded individuals to run content with. It took longer to get our FC geared and practice on runs but now we have a solid team that can get things done. I know the ME ME ME attitude does not support things like helping out your fellow gamers but it's nice to have a consistent team of friends to run with and not deal with some of the aforementioned jerks you see shouting. But anyone can clear the current content in the game if they attempt to get decent gear, are willing to learn and most of all have patience because every run will not go as planned and some of the best ones are overcoming situations when things hit the fan.

Sidenote: Requirements for iLVL 70 weapons are bunk, we've had plenty of people clear content with GC weapons and sub-par gear before anyone even had enough tomestones get to relic. Everyone just assumes people are lazy where I personally did 75 Garuda runs and saw one single bow that entire time (did not win the lot), sometimes you can just be exceptionally unlucky. I eventually got a group that did not care as much and easily cleared with an Ifrit bow (rest of my gear was DL/Relic/Gryphon though).

Here's another fun fact, we're all playing a (careful this next word might hurt) GAME.

*gasp* I know, pretty logical stuff.

So what makes you have anymore authority then someone else to say what's the right way to play?

Stop getting so bent out of shape, get some perspective, and move on.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

People knowing what to do and being able to do it in practice are two different things. So they do not have to be lying saying they know what to do.
I also disagree with the general assumption that people don't get better. I've seen it countlessly in duty finder, pugs and raiding in other mmo's. People learn and you will get things down with persistence.

Does this mean it's worth the time to wait for other people to learn? Sometimes. Sometimes it isn't.
You can do what you want with your time, and I don't blame people for quitting, but do not assume that 3 wipes means that people are too dumb to learn.



I don't see what you did there. He said he's not afraid to leave when he comes to the conclusion that the time and effort of the run isn't enough to warrant continuing.
He has that right. You can't control what other people do or value, and it is not your business to.
Telling people they are obligated to stay in a group they don't want to is just as bad as ranting over how fail and useless another player is.
BOTH are too caught up with what other people are doing.

Leaving is only an issue in Trails anyway where you can't find a replacement.

I'm usually a very patience player. I don't expect others to be. People can get better, no one is obigated to wait for them to. Middle of the road.

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This entire issue I suppose has little to do with me considering I virtually never use DF, but the few times I have its been sad what I've seen.

You make it sound like its my job to train people every single day I ever log in or something, in every one of the 250+ dungeons I've run now, which would tack on an extra 30min+ to every single run. Why is it my job as a "hardcore/endgame" player to train anyone, ever, when they did not train me, I look things up as do the rest of the people in my FC and we exchange info and learn while others just enter DF going "I DUN KNO WUT TO DOOO" and go herpderping into walls. I'm not running dungeons to train people, I'm running them for points, people lack of w/e is not my problem.

This whole thing would be a different situation if DF found people from your server only, or at a minimum looked at your own server first for DF matches before searching through other servers, then my training would not go to waste on people I will never see again, but right now, the training would never end, and you will never... ever... get people who already know how to win things to train randoms in DF, you don't get that in any game that's cross-server and you never will, your not on my server and not my responsibility/problem/issue/anything, I do not have to train anyone just as they do not have to learn... which is fine, but don't complain when people leave.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

You make it sound like its my job to train people every single day

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I don't think you actually read any of my post?
Let me highlight:

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You can do what you want with your time, and I don't blame people for quitting

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Telling people they are obligated to stay in a group they don't want to is just as bad as ranting over how fail and useless another player is.

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Leaving is only an issue in Trials anyway where you can't find a replacement.

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I'm usually a very patience player. I don't expect others to be. People can get better, no one is obligated to wait for them to.

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no one is obligated to wait for them to

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So please read before you post.

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Originally Posted by Nero

You also will leave if you wipe certain times or a dungeon does require more time than you did expect and then you will leave and do not care about people which now have to spent Their TIME and Their MONEY, because some self-centered, greedy person just left their party?...

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Pretty much, yh.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Dude seriously.. if i happen to get into a DF Party with you, i will watch every single cutscene, wipe on purpose and so on, because it is MY Time and MY Money...

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I will be long gone before you even finish to watch the 1st cutscene. So... Go on, be my guest.

Online games: where there are actually people who think they are a badass for acting like jerks behind a veil of anonymity, instead of having good fun playing together because everybody else is nice to each other.



^ Never fails to amaze me.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

Online games: where there are actually people who think they are a badass for acting like jerks behind a veil of anonymity, instead of having good fun playing together because everybody else is nice to each other.



^ Never fails to amaze me.

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I think you don't understand that there are actually people who have fun in "beating" stuff and not "failing" stuff.

Elitism as a community has no real impact on the game. Sure everyone have these horror stories about jerks but they're literally present in every game so if they ruin the game for you here they'd ruin the game for your anywhere else, so it can't be specific to this game. Elitism is only a problem if the devs are also elitist. I remember talking to an EQ1 dev who thinks it's perfectly fine lesser players pay $15/month to do content 3 years behind for not being elite. Well, these guys just end up quitting the game and move to something else. I don't know enough about this game's devs to make a judgment on whether they may lean toward the elitist side or not, though usually the lack of response on crucial issue implies elitist tendencies.

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Originally Posted by Risae

I think you don't understand that there are actually people who have fun in "beating" stuff and not "failing" stuff.

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I think you don't understand the slightest bit of my post if that's the response it prompts you to give.

Maybe I live in another, parallel universe, but last time I checked, being nice to each other and "beating" stuff are not mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Risae

I think you don't understand that there are actually people who have fun in "beating" stuff and not "failing" stuff.

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^ This +1000.

Its funny to see how many hypocrites there is in this thread.

Nobody enjoy failure, especially when you are clearly not the one who has messed up.

For example if in a premade primal group we notice someone is the weakest mail and is holding back the group, we back out > instantly kick from party.

We re not going to try over and over with bad / inexperienced players,because success will never happen, especially in a fight like Titan.

Yesterday 2 players couldn't even dodge P3 plumes ( im serious they were actually that bad ) they claimed having experience and obviously lied to us, i blacklisted them right away.

There is nothing wrong in playing to win and minimising chances of failure by taking only good players.

Good people play with good people, bad people play with bad people.
Thats how me and lot of people think, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

We re not going to try over and over with bad / inexperienced players,because success will never happen, especially in a fight like Titan.

Yesterday 2 players couldn't even dodge P3 plumes ( im serious they were actually that bad ) they claimed having experience and obviously lied to us, i blacklisted them right away.

There is nothing wrong in playing to win and minimising chances of failure by taking only good players.

Good people play with good people, bad people play with bad people.
Thats how me and lot of people think, deal with it.

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elitist smug players are not a pleasure to play with. they largely overestimate their playing ability, and often confuse their time investment with skill.
they fall under the narcisst and sometimes under the hypocrite category as well.

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/408.html

you can only flog a horse so many times

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Time is money.
Money i spend every months to do things on this game that benefit my character.
Im not paying to wipe on things ive already done hundred times just because "i could be nice".
This will not happen unless you are a friend and a good one.

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Need I remind you that this is a Multiplayer game? Which means you gotta play with other people! Other people! That is what is important here. The experience with others is what the game is about, not just making your own character powerful. You should try your best to make the game fun for others, not just yourself, I mean, we are all in this together.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Good people play with good people, bad people play with bad people.
Thats how me and lot of people think, deal with it.

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Well I think that if good people play with bad people, then the bad people can learn and get better, and become good people in the future.

It will only get worse when FF16 comes out sadly.