Black Mage What Need to be Changed and Improved [Discussion & Feedback]

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

How many of those replies are people defending monks? The reply count isn't the same as how many people agree with it.
I posted in those too, but I don't agree that monks are weak.
I mean, I could easily look at "Likes" instead. This OP has 26. The monk threads has 6 and 4 respectively. That's hardly convincing.

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No need to look on "likes"- just read some messages. Most of players think, that something must be done with GS buff, because it wanish very fast. What else? Do you know about realy useless monk's skills Perfect balance ans Shoulder TAckle (for example). You want to know monk's opinion? Just play monk- you will have your own

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your continued feedback on the usefulness of each ability. As you can imagine, we'll continue to make class and job adjustments on a patch by patch basis as necessary. However, at this point, we can't comment just yet on whether or not we'll make adjustments to abilities like Freeze or Apocatastasis for the upcoming PvP system as its not yet implemented.

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Last I heard, PvP abilities were going to be separate from PvE abilities. This comment suggests otherwise. Anyone know if class abilities will be shared between PvP and PvE?

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

No need to look on "likes"- just read some messages. Most of players think, that something must be done with GS buff, because it wanish very fast. What else? Do you know about realy useless monk's skills Perfect balance ans Shoulder TAckle (for example). You want to know monk's opinion? Just play monk- you will have your own

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Um, Monk is what I play. Even with GL3 falling off sometimes, I'm still better dps pretty much every other dps I've come across.
Monks are the highest parsers. Perfect Balance is an excellent burst skill and any good monk rotation has it as dps cooldown or a GL builder. How is that useless?
Shoulder tackle adds good mobility to the monk. The cd could be lowered but that's a tweak more than a fix.
And those replies do not all agree that monks have problems. Monk just take a lot of work.
Now leave the BLMs to their discussion.

This is more of a question than actually something that need improvement but, since Final Fantasy II (corret me if im mistaken please) the BLMs have been able to use Ultima (there might have skipped one game or two, but im talking in overall). Will BLMs be able to have acess to Ultima skill in future content?

Would trade Freeze for a threat reducer in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

Last I heard, PvP abilities were going to be separate from PvE abilities. This comment suggests otherwise. Anyone know if class abilities will be shared between PvP and PvE?

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This is a common misconception. The PVP-specific abilities they referred to are CC Removal/Temp Immunity abilities. You will still use your regular rotations in PvP.

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

This is a common misconception. The PVP-specific abilities they referred to are CC Removal/Temp Immunity abilities. You will still use your regular rotations in PvP.

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Thanks for the answer. That makes sense with what the dev said. Sorry if it derailed the thread a bit but the dev mentioned PvP and this will affect black mage abilities as well as all other class abilities.

I'm a WHM and now I'm leveling my THM to become a BLM.
But BLM skills is dishearteneing, at best.

Freeze is great for speed runs for binding trash outside of a boss, defiantly a useful ability. People on here must not do many speed runs.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Freeze is great for speed runs for binding trash outside of a boss, defiantly a useful ability. People on here must not do many speed runs.

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Yes, an end game BLM ice spell best/only use is bind so you can skip. Very useful indeed, so tell me does "Cover" still works in Coil when BLM shouts in T4 "FLARE INCOMING"? That is what I would call a damn useful skill not your gimmick tactics to speed run.

I do have to agree, most of our BLM unique abilities are severely lacking. Even Flare is extremely niche in its uses.

This is the main reason why any BLM who actually gets Turn 5 down and nabs the THM/BLM weapon will probably drop the BLM crystal and opt for full Allagan. Our unique abilities are mostly useless, and being a THM lets you pull a TON of abilities that would increase your DPS substantially.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

However, at this point, we can't comment just yet on whether or not we'll make adjustments to abilities like Freeze or Apocatastasis for the upcoming PvP system as its not yet implemented.

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Anyone who has ever played WoW just groaned at the idea of some of our spells being useless in PvE because of PvP

Freeze is truly terrible because it doesn't do what it suggests in the description. I wouldn't mind the cast time if it meant that it created an area where everything in it took DoT and the status effects as long as it lasted.

Here's my suggestions:

Replace Freeze something similar to WoW's Ice Block (Gives short-term immunity to all damage and attacks for few seconds)

Replace Aetherial Manipulation with Short-distance Teleport

Make Firestarter proc not part of GCD

BLM class is now 100x more fun to play

o_O

How about buff SMN. Thx. xD

Hmm Freeze is actually pretty useful. If properly used, it is an infinite CC chain.

Sleep > Bind > Sleep > Bind > Sleep (Diminishing returns gone) > Bind (Diminishing returns gone).

DR reset is 1 minute.

I have saved my party in AK from countless wipes with this CC-chain (that 3 gargoyle, wisp, 2 brontasaurus, 1 dullahan pull lol). Since some monsters are immune to sleep, they have to be bound. Killing those that are immune to sleep asap. Not to mention Freeze gain cast time reduction after your Fire 3.

Flare is good as it is. Not as great as Holy but it is not bad. I use Flare in my rotation and hard cast it when my MP is below 700 and my Firestarter proc is available. God that feeling when you crit both Fire 3 and Flare and all your party members goes "holy shit!" is awesome lol.

Apocatastasis however....I can't find much use for it.

I would like to see firestarter be able to stack. Iv had it proc right as i start casting my next fire only to see another firestarter proc, no way am i waiting a sec per cast to see if it procs or not.

Hmm.... Flare is a great AoE, mine could hit up to 1.9k (on crit) before upgrading to relic +1, and that's a lot, however, the setback you get from being mana drained sucks, depending on how good you are or your luck, it could take from split a second to get a mana tick after transpose, or 2 seconds, which sucks because you're locked out doing nothing for those 2 seconds, however, this makes convert extremely useful! I agree with what you said about it ^^ My complain however is, that it glitches with lag, and sometimes it does not give mana.... but anyway, that's another thing. (Gotta fix the lag+queuing spells issue, for example, it's hard to combo Swiftcast + spell (Flare, lol) sometimes when servers are not the best responsive)

What I really wanted to add is that Freeze is useful in certain occasions, and is a great CC, a lot of trash mobs are immune to sleep but they are not to bind, it has saved my ass quite a few times, gotta use it with Swiftcast tho, cause it has too long of a cast time, unless it's something pre-organized where you can spare the 3 seconds for it. And most importantly its snare lasts for 12 seconds like the tooltip says. If for you it is not lasting that much, it might be because diminishing returns kicked in before, or, for some reason the things you are using it on have said resistance to CC that reduces CC duration (?) Or because someone hit em.

Either way, having said all this, I agree with you completely that black mage could use some tuning up, as in our abilities are not always flashy enough. Fire spells have really tiny missiles which is kinda lame, tho the effects they do on hit are alright. Flare is alright as it stands ^^ And Blizzard 3 has an awesome effect =D But yeah... we are missing those amazing spells like for example a meteor (LB3 but maybe less flashy ^^) which is not even exclusive to black mage, cause summoners can do it too -.-"

So to sum up all this, BLMs do need more flashy spells (or make the current ones flashier) and more awesome AOEs! Tho would have to work em around since our spells combination is pretty solid already. But hey come on... atleast one more flashy blizzard AoE spell, to be up par with Flare. But BLM spells set is fine game-wise. Other than Apocatastasis being completely useless (they could remove it and give us our most required new flashy AOE).

TLDR; BLM's spells set is fine - Apocatastasis is useless - We need more impressive visual effects

P.S.: We want RED MAGES TOO! (and more jobs, like blue mage :D lol)

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Originally Posted by Bluefox

I would like to see firestarter be able to stack. Iv had it proc right as i start casting my next fire only to see another firestarter proc, no way am i waiting a sec per cast to see if it procs or not.

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I almost forgot! This! We want to be able to stack firestarter to 2, so we dont lose procs to poor rng :D

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Originally Posted by Thundaga

I really wish they would give BLM a thunder spell...they got rid of burst for some reason.

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Thunder, Thunder II and Thunder III are not Thunder spells ?


/confused

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Originally Posted by Ceelo_Mage

Thunder, Thunder II and Thunder III are not Thunder spells ?


/confused

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The animation doesn't even look like a thunder. Look at it. :P

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Originally Posted by Nanga

Black Mage What Need to be Changed and Improved

6- Enmity Bar

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There is a Enmity Bar already in the game, that little bar under your JOB portrait in party frames with the numbers next to it

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Originally Posted by Feyniphia

The animation doesn't even look like a thunder. Look at it. :P

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Agreed, it has the appearance of Thunder, but the color is Purple, you'd think it would be White or Blue or mixed lol

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

You know what "I" would like to see in regards to BLM? WE NEED ELEMENTAL DAMAGE! Seriously it severely stupid that they didnt go ffxi route and make spells do more damage to certian bosses. I mean seriously.. fire does more damage to ifrit that blizzard? Thats absurd.

Its like using fire on a fire elemental doing more than blizzard SHOULD.

Stop making our magic generic damage across the board, give us tactics not oh... lets fire fire fire firestarter, fire 3 the whole dang game.

/thread

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Thats because they made the BLM spells Fire does damage and Blizzard gives back mana while still being able to so some damage, very kool system

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

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LOL this is a PvE orientated game not a PvP one lol

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Hmm.... Flare is a great AoE, mine could hit up to 1.9k (on crit) before upgrading to relic +1, and that's a lot, however, the setback you get from being mana drained sucks, depending on how good you are or your luck, it could take from split a second to get a mana tick after transpose, or 2 seconds, which sucks because you're locked out doing nothing for those 2 seconds, however, this makes convert extremely useful! I agree with what you said about it ^^ My complain however is, that it glitches with lag, and sometimes it does not give mana.... but anyway, that's another thing. (Gotta fix the lag+queuing spells issue, for example, it's hard to combo Swiftcast + spell (Flare, lol) sometimes when servers are not the best responsive)

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Convert is great for Flare, but I think it's lame that Flare is reliant on another BLM ability to be useful single-target. Why can't we have Burst?

What I would like to see on BLM (THM too)

Make Firestarter proc either appear at end of casting the fire so I'm not halfway through the other fire cast when it procs just to get it replaced by another firestarter proc or make them stackable up to a maximum of at least 2.
Take Thundercloud and Firestarter proc off of GCD. Make them have their own CD.
Make freeze an AoE DoT spell and if Bind is still bound to vanish after getting one hit, at least get slow ailment into the AoE. Raising the duration/damage would make freeze a lot more worth to cast.
And please apocastastatstatis .... I just can't love this skill. It's not my job to take care of the Tank. I know it can have uses but my job is to damage the boss as fast as possible for as much as possible. I'd love to see it being replaced with BURST.
Manawall/ward are great but I want lower cool down trait once lvl cap is raised :P gotta love those 2 skills.
Convert is superb as it is imo.
Aetherial manipulation is imo just for fun >_>

I want to use ancient magic. I want to destroy the boss with my ancient magic. Freeze, Flare, Burst even Tornado, Flood and Quake° (Which is extremely unrealistic but burst at least is realistic)
Make them worth using on single targets. Get them useful procs or w/e but please make me use ancient magic on bosses. I WANT TO DESTROY.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Hmm.... Flare is a great AoE, mine could hit up to 1.9k (on crit) before upgrading to relic +1, and that's a lot, however, the setback you get from being mana drained sucks, depending on how good you are or your luck, it could take from split a second to get a mana tick after transpose, or 2 seconds, which sucks because you're locked out doing nothing for those 2 seconds...

TLDR; BLM's spells set is fine - Apocatastasis is useless - We need more impressive visual effects

P.S.: We want RED MAGES TOO! (and more jobs, like blue mage :D lol)

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Where's my :
-Burst
-Flood
-Quake
-Rasp
-Tornado
-Demi
-Fire 4, Blizzard 4, Thunder 4

I demand more slaves!

I have to agree with the OP on most the points. Mostly my grief is the Freeze spell. Its sad that it's almost completely uselsess for most people. Like others have stated the blm story talks about learning destructive magic, but the only destructive thing we get is Flare. Freeze used to be awesome in 1.0 but I guess blizzard 3 pretty much replaced it. So why don't they just rework it to be a DOT circle like shadowflare or that archer fire circle. I mean the effect is already in the game, just rip it off one of the Hydra attacks. Or just make it a large destructive aoe spell that casts heavy or something. And for crying out loud change the animation. That is one of the sorriest looking blm spells. And the irony is they actually use the graphic of the old 1.0 Freeze spell on the action bar but the animation doesn't match haha.

There's my 2 cents

I either use Apocatastasis a lot, or never, depending on dungeon. In AK, if there's a houndlight group, I sleep them, when sleep wears off (or when yahoos aoe) I smack the tank with Apocatastasis, suddenly that's 30% less damage from the lights for 12 seconds, that's 30% less work for the healer, who can now spend more time in cleric stance tossing nukes and making things fall over faster. If it's a melee group, eye for an eye on tank. Lethargy or virus on heavy hitters all while hurling a heap of fire. There's plenty of classes that can deal damage. I can deal damage and with one hand and mitigate it with the other. Throw in a tank who's not shy on defensive clickies and you'll have a healer who can spend an awful lot of time tossing nukes and speeding things along. Now Aetherial manipulation: Awkward as heck to use. Apocatastasis could stand for more damage types to resist.

Apocatastasis effects a lot of skills people arn't aware of, most of them being cleaves (Titan and Deadnaughts on Turn4 for example).

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Hello,







2- Freeze @ lvl 35:

"Covers a designated area in ice, dealing ice damage with a potency of 20 and binding enemies that enter."

Possibly the very worst spell/skill in the entire game with no competition what so ever. Long cast time that does almost no damage and the bind debuff does not last more than a very short few seconds, what worse is the bind effect breaks as soon as the target is hit by anything. This spell does not have an actual good use in the game to the point many BLMs don't even have it on their bar. I tried to think of any good use, even in Garuda HM but why would I even use it when I can Flare the feathers as they spawn to no health.

I rate it -6 out of 5. Also keep in mind, almost all lvl 55+ monsters fully resist it.
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Tri-disaster for SMN is worse.

You can "FIX" this job all you want; however, it doesn't take away from the fact that almost 75%+ of the FFXIV ARR populaton doesn't know what the BLM's main roll is in a party.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

Flare is best used when you're under 700 MP, right before Converting. Or if it will finish off a mob group use it then Transpose while running to the next group.

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I personally use flare just after Blizzard III > Fire III restores my mana. That way it hits for 1-1.5k on each mob in the group due to the Astral Fire III. I use my Convert as a cooldown and set up the following macro:

/action "Swiftcast" <me>
/wait 4
/action "Flare" <t>
/wait 4
/action "Convert" <me>

This gives me 1-1.2k of mana left to cast a fire 1, then I swing back over to Blizzard III > Fire III > Fire 1 (casting active firestarters) until 700-900 mana > Blizzard III > Fire III > repeat. I never have to stop casting and it is all at quick speed.

I think I found a use for FREEZE!!!!

On my White mage I'm constantly sleeping things. A lot of the time I end up with a mob that's been slept 3 times and is about to wake up. In that case I hit it with Fluid Aura which roots the target for 5 seconds If I wait the 5 seconds and sleep the mob when it comes out I get a full 30 second sleep instead of .

It's been a while since I played Black mage, and even longer since I tried out Freeze, but would that work basically the same on an AE level?

Note: I only read starting post~

Exactly my thoughts, but question.
Does anyone else feel, even Healers aoe does why more dmg?
Like i do flare once, while the healer uses his aoe 3 times, cuz i have to get my mana back and all. so the healer does lik 4-6 times more dmg in the same time with aoe?

How about just make freeze the same as it was in 1.0 >< and lower enmity.

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Originally Posted by Tzain

I think I found a use for FREEZE!!!!

On my White mage I'm constantly sleeping things. A lot of the time I end up with a mob that's been slept 3 times and is about to wake up. In that case I hit it with Fluid Aura which roots the target for 5 seconds If I wait the 5 seconds and sleep the mob when it comes out I get a full 30 second sleep instead of .

It's been a while since I played Black mage, and even longer since I tried out Freeze, but would that work basically the same on an AE level?

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It would. People just don't care for cc, hence why they don't like Freeze. The good thing about freeze, aside from what you said, is that it affects most of the enemies that are immune to Sleep (except the obvious ones, such as bosses).

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Originally Posted by Tyl

Note: I only read starting post~

Exactly my thoughts, but question.
Does anyone else feel, even Healers aoe does why more dmg?
Like i do flare once, while the healer uses his aoe 3 times, cuz i have to get my mana back and all. so the healer does lik 4-6 times more dmg in the same time with aoe?

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I feel the same, as I pointed it on previous pages.
Holy is much more effective for AoE dps than flare or Fira. They can kinda spam it and the damage is the same than Flare without AF III though WHMs are full mind and BLMs are full Int...

BLM really need some kind of ancient magic nuke with high cd... Something more impressive than just Flare Convert Flare ...
Apocatastatis and Freeze really need a rework...

A BIG enmity bar for current target would be very nice. xD