[Loremonger] 1.X Lominsan Story Arc

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The Sea Serpent makes at least three confirmed appearances:

• Shapeless Melody's leap over the echo ship
• The battle between the Knights of the Barracuda and the Serpent Reaver ships commanded by (Ascian-in-Disguise) Travanchet where it tidal waves everything in the vicinity
• A battle where local pirate gangs, including those aboard the Astalicia, drove the serpent back to the depths. Sthalmann implies to Reyner that it was the returning of the Rhotano Bloodcant tablet to the deep that actually caused it to leave, but this may have been a ruse to divert attention away from the horn (aka The Key; The Treasure) and steal the tablet for himself.

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I should have said "up until that point". My comment was temporally contextual and still stands! :) I was aware of the two appearances of the Sea Serpents in cutscenes.

I think your appearance three is confused! :) Here:

• A battle where local pirate gangs, including those aboard the Astalicia, drove the serpent back to the depths. Baderon's comment (not Hob btw) only infers the crew of the Astilicia drove it back. As the Astalicia is the ship in Shapeless Melody, it's this event he's referring to.
• Sthalmann implies to Reyner... This is in reference to the second appearance. In context, this scene occurs just after the confrontation between Emeric and Mero. The Barracudas arrive when the Sahagin attack and drive off the Sea Serpent by tossing the Tablet. I think he's telling the truth, as we don't see the tablet again. He implores Y'shtola to teach him how to use the horn; I am presuming he knows she has read the tablet after speaking to the cat in customs.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

It's never stated in a single instance that Hyllfyr is, all of the above... but the quotes are:

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Thanks, that's filled the only hole I could find in my theory. Only one so extremely familiar with the minutae of the lore could possibly hope to recall where to look for all of that evidence! :D

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

It took me a while to realize this, myself, but I'm about 85% sure that Sthalmann is not referring to Hob's ship or the events of Shapeless Melody at all when he talks to H'naanza.

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Not Hob's ship, no. But I'm sticking with that he's talking about the events in Shapeless Melody and it's the Astalicia... Here's why.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Thus, I think it's far more likely that Hyllfyr is legit. That the quotes above substantiate my previous claims by my own standards at least, so I think it's safe to say he was well-known in '62.

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Your quotes do bloody not Mr. Moose. :) They're all quotes from folk in '72. Give me some quotes from '62 that would make you think he was well-known. Although, to be fair, if you could, it still wouldn't change my mind because...

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

the theory about a Faux-Hyllfyr is based on Sthalmann having one eye and Hyllfyr having two, but also demands that 10 years is all it takes for people to forget the face of a pirate everyone knows, respects and fears despite the fact that he looks just like the guy who killed the Admiral in a failed coup.

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Aside from his crew, who would know what a notorious pirate looks like? Especially one who has been explicitly described as a recluse and from our own character's perspective, only gets to see him thrice (thanks Orophin). I think that Merlwyb wouldn't have known what he looked like in '62, so it's likely she has had no direct dealings with him before she won the Trident just now in '72. I think the key is between '62 and '72 his notoriety grew, but no-one really got to see him until the formation of The Maelstrom.

Killed the Admiral in a failed coup? How dare you suggest such a thing? Unless you have any evidence of course? The only thing I can find pertaining to '62s Admiral's death is from Never the Twain Shall Meet:

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Originally Posted by Sthalmann

Which is the reason why I will not. The power warded within this relic can save the lives of all who call this realm their home. The Admiral has been sent to the abyss, and now the beasts that led him there shall follow. It is simple.

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That states directly that Sthalmann believes the Admiral has been killed by "beasts", colloquial for the Sahagin. Now, I'm presuming that this was because the Admiral was present at the first Sahagin attack that is responded to at the end of Treasures of the Main, the one that is set-up by Sthalmann (HYLLFYR!) (through Emeric) and Travanchet. At the very end of Never the Twain Shall Meet, Sthalmann, Emeric and Merodaulyn are planning the attack. Emeric asks 'what if they run' and Sthalmann responds by stating "that's when Merodaulyn will make his entrance" as "insurance". I get from this that the purpose of the attack is for Travanchet to kill the Admiral and decimate the fleet (which he does) so that his 'ally' Sthalmann can claim the Admiralty. If the 'Cudas flee, then Merodaulyn is to kill the Admiral anyway. I think the Echo, in context being played after Sthalmann talks about the Admiral being sent to the abyss by the beasts, is meant to mean this. The character of Merodaulyn specifically appears with no background (as stated by other NPCs), does his job and then vanishes. Sounds to me like an assassin; "capable with an axe, but not got the demeanour of the Bloody Executioners" (ie a Marauader)

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Before I move into the scenario I think is more likely at this moment, I'll, of course, have to address your question: Why would a two-eyed pirate take a one-eyed nickname? To make him more intimidating. One of Lominsa's greatest pirate stories is that of One-eyed Wylfred (a story told by Erik).

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I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. Not just because it's extremely tenuous ;), but because Sthalmann describes the captain of the Shapeless Melody boat (*cough* Astilicia*) as the "one-eyed captain". No naming of Hyllfyr (because he's not notorious in '62) and that's not a nickname, it's a description.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

My current theory, that Shapeless Melody takes place three months prior and Sthalmann becomes Commodore due to a Tident afterwards, does fit this timeline and takes this into account, even if it can't identify the echo ship or why Sthalmann was there. My thinking is that, as a pirate, Sthalmann would have been aware of the Astalicia regardless of whether he was on that ship's crew or not. Follow this line of logic.

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I just get the feeling that he's been Commodore for a while. The other pirate groups acknowledge his authority and he's ordered a ship to be built (which takes a while!). No-one mentions that the Admiral is new or that there's been any recent change to the status quo in '62. In '72 when Merlwyb takes the chair, it's all anyone's talking about.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Whatever ship he's on, he at least knows enough of the serpent's legend to realize that it's in the water and scream, "Brace yourselves!" before it reveals itself, much to his shock.

• Why does Sthalmann know the serpent is coming by the movements in the water?

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Because he's already found SR, stolen some booty (but what? but what?) and is aware of the legend. He's high-tailing the Astalicia back to Limsa and SR's automated defence system (the Sea Serpent) kicks in.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• But, how could he possibly get the treasure?
  

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The Sea Serpent wasn't after the Horn, it was after the Tablet. The Tablet is what Sthalmann(HYLLFYR!) took (perhaps with other stuff, see a future post for those wild conjectures) from SR just before the opening scene of Treasures of the Main with the Sea Serpent attack. The Sea Serpent would have got it back and all, if it hadn't been commanded not to destroy the Astalicia.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• Where do you get that kind of power over the 'Cudas?

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As I mentioned earlier, I consider that Sthalmann and the '62 Admiral have been in those positions for a good number of years prior to '62.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• "Alright, I'm Commodore, now what?"

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The Barracuda's are his men. He can't use his Hyllfyr alter-ego and the Astilicia crew, because they've been purportedly locked up during these events. Now here's a bit of unfounded conjecture, but: Having discovered knowledge of the horn through partially translating the tablet, he consults with the Admiral to send a provisional squadron (the SR Unit) to SR to recover it. The admiral agrees, and it is ambushed as arranged with Travanchet. The perpetually unfortunate 5th Levy are the first on the scene and get annihilated. The rest of the fleet is then scrambled and subsequently devastated (because Travanchet can stop cannon balls). The Misery reaches SR in the confusion and loads up its hull full of booty ("returned low in the water"; again as to what this might be, I'll do a separate post) while Emeric specifically finds the horn that's mentioned on the tablet. Whilst making their escape, the Admiral, aware of the horn, realizes what the Kraken have done and give chase. There's a brief confrontation between Emeric and Merodaulyn, who is masquerading as one of the Admiral's men. Merod knows he has to let Emeric escape, but Emeric makes the fight a little too believable and injures Merod. The Kraken escape and Merod goes on to brutally murder every last member of the Admiral's crew (ok I put that in because I like the idea he's a psychopathic assassin). The remains of the Limsa Fleet limp back to port after picking up the survivors, one of which was Sthalmann who's ship had also been sunk (or so he says).

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• [B]
  Before the Seal Rock Unit can be formed, a civilian trade ship from another land is registered with the Lominsan government. But isn't that... IT IS. It's the Astalicia. "Oh, Hells no."

Sthalmann knows what the ship really is, so he immediately locks up the entire crew. No matter what happens, he cannot let a rival pirate with that much power and respect gain a foothold in his very city within his very government, but what can he do about it? Hyllfyr is private now, he doesn't let himself be seen; there's just no proof!

Sthalmann thus must stay in town and deal with this, and he can feel the treasure slipping from his grasp.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're implying that:

• Sthalmann finds out about Seal Rock somehow and doesn't act immediately.
• The Astilicia arrives, which he's heard of before as a notorious pirate ship and he locks up the captain and crew.
• He gets the tablet out of them and proceeds to spend three (a few, whatever) months before recruiting the Seal Rock Unit.
• He has to stay in town to deal with prisoners.

I'm implying that:

• Sthalmann disovered Seal Rock whilst he was out under his Hyllfyr alter-ego.
• The crew of the Astalicia were locked up so no-one could see One-eyed Hyllfyr (because he ceased to exist at that point).
• The Sea Serpent is always after the tablet, which is brought back to Limsa at the start and returned to the sea at its second appearance in Never the Twain... Hyllfyr stole it from Seal Rock just before the opening Echo and guessed that was what it was after, possibly due to H'naanza's theorizing. He returned it to the sea as Sthalmann, when they rushed out to save Emeric from the Sahagin. How else would Sthalmann know that was what it was after unless this was the case?

FIGHT ME! :D

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• How can he focus on Hyllfyr without losing the Treasure?

He needs a plan. First, he recruits Merodaulyn into the 'Cudas and places him on the Seal Rock unit. The Sanguine Sirens want a man in the 'Cudas, and Medodaulyn will leave them in an instant if he could be in with the next Admiral, instead. Then, he recruits Emerick from the Krakens Arms. He knows Emerick has dealings with the Sahagin's Serpent Reavers; his niece Sisipu saw him conspiring with them to attack Oschon's Torch.

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Hmm. I think it is heavily implied that Merodaulyn is a highly-trained assassin that has just very recetly come out of nowhere. I considered that to mean he was in the employ of Sthalmann and was planted among the Sirens. The Sirens then planted him among the 'Cudas, which was Merod and Sthalmann's plan all along.

Didn't Sisipu witness Emerick passing the nautical charts to Travanchet and discussing the planned ambush at Seal Rock? I thought their meeting was in the aftermath of the attack on Oschon's Torch, not planning it. Am I confused?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• Unfortunately, Travanchet turns out to not be a Serpent Reaver at all.

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Great isn't it. And I've got more on what the hells an Ascian might do, based on the timing of the two star showers and my irrepressible Echo paranoia.
Later, later...

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Before Sthalmann can do anything, Travanchet comes at him with all of his might. The sea serpent tries to come for those who took the treasure, but succeeds only in wrecking the fleets, severely wounding Emerick, and causing Merod to go MIA.

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Until Sthalmann, who I am presuming is on the 'Cuda ships we see arrive, tosses the tablet back into the sea.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

To make matters worse, Hyllfyr, though a pirate, is loyal to Lominsa's roots, safety, and values. The Astalicia sheds its subterfuge and leads the charge against the sea serpent, thus securing even more respect and causing the Lominsan government to look the other way on their docked "trade ship" so long as they open a "proper guild." This may be another reason Sthalmann says that the Rhotano Bloodcant tablet returned the Serpent to the depths. He wanted some credit.

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I dispute that any of this happened, as explained in the essay above. If the Asticlia was the ship in scene one, then there's nothing to suggest it ever met with the Sea Serpent, or indeed left Limsa, after that point. Why does Sthalmann care about lying for credit with Y'shtola just after he's revealed himself to be a megalomaniac bent on world domination?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Y'shtola...

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Circle of Knowing, possibly The Twelve themselves. I fully believe the Twelve are powerful Allagan who have been deified since their disappearance. I think they disappeared forward through time to 1562 to return when they are needed the most, but I don't think they're god-beings, just very powerful people who have been subsequently deified.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

But there you have it. What do you think? I wish I could just lock this up! *n*

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I think you're way off, but it's doing my head in, so I'm hoping you can destroy my perception of the whole thing so I don't have to think about it for much longer. :)

I have a little bit more to divulge on Hyllfyr. I'm not trying to debunk anyone's theories at this point, it's just way too hard to do so. You guys can do the strenuous brainwork. :P (By the way here's his 4th appearance, Mjollnir.)

At the beginning of the first cutscene of "Captain's Orders" (Marauder quest) you're brought forth to some of the Bloody Executioners.

Blaubenn - "Cap'n! We found the drunk's first mate. Says his name is <character name>!"
Hyllfyr - "I asked ye t' bring me Rostnsthal, not his worm."

Another conversation in the same cutscene:

Niublaet - "What say you, Captain? Give the word..." (insert threatening gestures here)

Now this isn't going to amount to a hill of beans, but after this Niublaet goes on he paused through his little diatribe as Hyllfyr gives him a cold stare of death WITH ONE EYE. Ok ok, I know that doesn't mean anything, I just wanted to put it in there. Mostly this post is just to correlate Hyllfyr being acknowledged as a captain.

Later on in the same cutscene, you get beaten up and left for dead in the Maelstrom Consortium's aleholds. Rostnstahl just happens to be down here as well, looking for something. He finds a book which in another cutscene he asks you to "...take this 'ere t' th' cap'n. Tell 'im ye got it back from the thievin' buggers what fingered it from 'is lockers."

What's confusing for me here is that what is revealed in an Echo at the end of the quest is that the book is actually a register of all of Cavallain's "dealin's" that he was trying to bribe Reyner with, probably for money (to fix his boat as mentioned earlier in the quest) and maybe to restore some lost favor. Question is, why would this book belong to Hyllfyr (since Rostnstahl said to return it to him) when it's got entries of what the other pirate captains are doing? Is this just the link to him being the big pirate boss in town?

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Originally Posted by Orophin

(By the way here's his 4th appearance, Mjollnir.)

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On my counting this was his second, where yes you get to see his dark complexion, white beard and one-eyed glare!

Maybe it's just that the one eye has a superpower?

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

I keep asking... who IS this guy???

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No matter what settings you play with, he has no shadows. You can safely bet that he's Ascian (Greek for "without shadow"; a+skia), and was thus the source both of Y'shtola's claims that she's in town to find Emerick's "shadowless associate" as well as the knowledge that the Ascians also seek the key she's after.

Many people know it means without shadow, but not many people know that this is only its literal definition. The Shadowless was a real-world term used for a specific people - those from the tropical/equatorial Latitudes. If this ties into their lore at all... that I don't know.

Based on the way a starshower signals his arrival as a bad omen (though the scene looks kind of like he rode in on it), I'd say he, or another ascian who at least mentions him, will be turning up again. Probably with that army in hand, yeah?

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Originally Posted by Catapult

The final confrontation with a double echo... supposedly, Y'shtola has agreed to a private meeting with Stahlmann there. Why? I know the broad reason, but I want you to spell it out in detail for me.

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I wanted to approach this question in a way that somehow tied it back to discerning whether she's just got good mage powers or is using Archon abilities, or whether she was in town for the whole 2 weeks to four months, or anything that could help us narrow her down - but I've got nothing.

Thing is, I can't think of any reason she wouldn't prefer to deal with Sthalmann via a private meeting. No matter how you spin it, she'd essentially need the heaviest hitters in Limsa to even get credible jurisdiction, and then even if she were able to pull that off, it she'd need to provide motive, which would essentially require her to say,

"And it was all to get his hands on that immensely powerful artifact capable of making him nigh on invincible to you. Now, take it from him and give it to me ... because that's why I came he- I don't care if we just me- WILL YOU JUST GIVE ME THE DAMN HORN?"

A private meeting was her only chance to quietly secure the artifact for the Circle of Knowing (or "Sharlayan Council") and get the hell out of dodge without the Ascians getting the key or picking up her trail. Load of good it did her, but still, that was probably what she had in mind.

I wish I could connect this to evidence that she's more likely to be using Conjurer abilities or Archon Superpowers... whether she's reguar ol' teleporting or Archon Time Traveling ... but no dice.

Again, the only thing stopping me from Loremongering this is that, as much as I love writing theories, I will not call them facts just because I think they're likely considering the facts as I contextualize them.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Now this isn't going to amount to a hill of beans, but after this Niublaet goes on he paused through his little diatribe as Hyllfyr gives him a cold stare of death WITH ONE EYE.

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We only see one eye. The camera only zooms-in on one eye. The other eye could very well be just fine off screen. We don't know. What we do know is that, even though the lighting is different, the character model art packet used in this scene is the exact same one used to render Shot Through the Heart, down to the same axe and same red iris color that Sthalmann doesn't have, but would sure be distinctive.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

Thanks, that's filled the only hole I could find in my theory. Only one so extremely familiar with the minutae of the lore could possibly hope to recall where to look for all of that evidence!

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It's quite possible that this "Moose" figure just has a lot of text files and a Windows search button to help him out.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

Baderon's comment (not Hob btw)

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Point Mjollir - don't write 5 page posts after midnight!

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

infers the crew of the Astilicia drove it back. As the Astalicia is the ship in Shapeless Melody, it's this event he's referring to.

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Devil's Advocate - why would the Astalicia be out without their Captain? The nametag in '62 clearly says Sthalmann. I'm still not ready to buy that it's the Astalicia. I pointed out that they looked the same, but so might countless other pirate ships.

For all we know, ten years ago, Sthalmann was first mate of Pirate Captain Hob. I don't think we have much history on the guy, and he owes Baderon enough favors to have been a citizen for some time... and we still don't know why in one quest his ship has a common room identical to the Astalicia and then all of a sudden he's using a ferry from the FSH guild.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

The Barracudas arrive when the Sahagin attack and drive off the Sea Serpent by tossing the Tablet. I think he's telling the truth, as we don't see the tablet again. He implores Y'shtola to teach him how to use the horn; I am presuming he knows she has read the tablet after speaking to the cat in customs.

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I agree with the second part of that to such a degree that I now think it's even less likely that he truly tossed the tablet as opposed to keeping it hidden to himself. If he knew the cat read it, he knows it can be read - why risk tossing it before he's sure whether or not he can convince Y'shtola to spill the dirt?

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

Killed the Admiral in a failed coup? How dare you suggest such a thing? Unless you have any evidence of course? The only thing I can find pertaining to '62s Admiral's death is from Never the Twain Shall Meet:

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The Sahagin only know where the Admiral would be due to the possession of his sailing charts, which were provided to them through Travanchet, who got them from Emerick, who was told to do so directly by Sthalmann. He orchestrated the whole thing - that's how he knows the deed's been done before anyone else.

Why would the Admiral himself be on the Seal Rock Provisional Unit, wouldn't it be more likely that he was intercepted independently due to the same sailing charts?

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

that's not a nickname, it's a description.

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Neither of us can claim either is conclusive at this time. Sthalmann could have just been avoiding flat out saying that the Astalicia was Hyllfyr's due to the political implications. He plays his hand close to the vest.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

The other pirate groups acknowledge his authority and he's ordered a ship to be built (which takes a while!).

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If the position in the 'Cudas comes from winning a Trident, and the Trident is basically pirate on pirate, is the winner not respected? Merlwyb was able to win Hyllfyr's respect in exactly this manner once she kicked some ass a little closer to home.

The ship Sthalmann requested sank because it was hastily built. He rushed it and didn't pay properly and it sank. To me this implies a time crunch.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

No-one mentions that the Admiral is new or that there's been any recent change to the status quo in '62. In '72 when Merlwyb takes the chair, it's all anyone's talking about.

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1562

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Originally Posted by Baderon

There's a war goin' on 'twixt rival factions: Rhoswen and 'er Sanguine Sirens against Carvallain and 'is Kraken's Arms...with each an' every one of 'em lookin' to dispose of Limsa's new Admiral an' take the spot for 'emselves. Problem is, they're too busy rippin' out each other's gizzards to get 'round to doin' the chief 'imself.

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I think from here on out it's mostly just theory-on-theory. I simply can't buy into yours yet because it assumes that without any wiggle room that because Sthalmann has one eye, he is without a doubt one-eyed Hyllfyr, whose reputation under his current guise was gained in 10 years, and everything else can be written off as part of this conspiracy.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that in the past, I've made many of the same assumptions you're making and they didn't pan out for me on the whole. You've fixed the problems that made my similar theories collapse by turning Sthalmann into Hyllfyr, which I'm not saying is 100% Guaranteed wrong, but is built with the same kind of hierarchical logic they use on Ancient Aliens whereby if the first simple assumption is wrong, the bigger picture is erased.

"This ancient Egyptian 3cm wooden artifact looks like an airplane. If we blow it up 50x, it flies, therefore the Egyptians knew about aeronautics. How could they power their giant planes (which we assume they had because they had a 3cm wooden toy)? Well, the Pyramid could be used to make a chemical reaction (that we have no evidence that it was) to power the planes (that we didn't find) and we see in India that their (fictional) planes flew using a gyroscopic mercury vortex (that phsyicists have disproven). This could have been used to fly the glider (we have no evidence of) Therefore, it is far less likely that we misunderstood this single 3cm artifact and far more likely that aliens developed trans-dimensional intergalactic wormhole technology to come to Earth and build the easiest structure to build out of hardened dirt. And then they left."

All we have to do is prove that Sthalmann isn't Hyllfyr. Not even that Hyllfyr in '72 didn't exist in '62, just that Sthalmann isn't Hyllfyr, and the whole house of cards comes down. I can't make that leap. I can't even make the leap in my own theory.

I'm just trying to find what options have the highest statistical probability. Unfortunately, it requires that I take the 2nd or 3rd most likely on smaller issues just to make the 1st most likely on the bigger ones fit.


As much as I hate to be like, FERN! FERN! ATTENTION! FERN? FERN! FEEEERN! I think he might be needed someday for some of these vague introduction storylines, at the very least to drop some confirmation clues, considering negating clues will just make us jump to new excuses! lol I thought some spaghetti-unraveling would lead to some answers, but all we've managed to do is identify the location of the knots.

Can you please provide a direct quote from your link that says the songstress is Hydaelyn? I don't feel like reading that whole article for one tidbit of information amidst a sea of what I already know.

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

Can you please provide a direct quote from your link that says the songstress is Hydaelyn? I don't feel like reading that whole article for one tidbit of information amidst a sea of what I already know.

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This doesn't come from the game, this comes directly from Yoshida-san via interviews about A Realm Reborn (so put them Macuahuimeh away, NDA Knights).

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

Yoshida explained the three story arcs that will make up the story for A Realm Reborn:

1. In this arc, the consciousness of the planet has formed into the Mother Crystal whom then speaks to the players. This is the storyline that will stretch throughout the entirety of the new FINAL FANTASY XIV.
2. Grand Companies vs the Garlean Empire. Yoshida noted that for this arc, an important keyword is “Warriors of Light”.
3. The Primals, which feed on the life force of the planet have grown in both strength and influence since the appearance of Bahamut.

FINAL FANTASY XIV Media Tour 2013

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This is not an invitation to get specific about things best left to A Realm Reborn,but Yoshida-san was able to confirm that, yes, "Hear... Feel... Think" came from Hydaelyn, and it's thus quite possible that the song Answers was sung from the perspective of this entity.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This doesn't come from the game, this comes directly from Yoshida-san via interviews about A Realm Reborn (so put them Macuahuimeh away, NDA Knights).



This is not an invitation to get specific about things best left to A Realm Reborn,but Yoshida-san was able to confirm that, yes, "Hear... Feel... Think" came from Hydaelyn, and it's thus quite possible that the song Answers was sung from the perspective of this entity.

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Come to think, now I remember reading that quote, and I'm kicking myself for forgetting it.

This explains a few things. Primarily the perspective of the singers in Answers. It's open to interpretation, but at first I thought the choir was the people of Eorzea (or all Hydaelyn) and that Susan Calloway's voice was a representative of the Twelve. But then perspectives changed when she said "these trials persuade us not" as she add's her voice to the choir's side. Then later ALL voices sing "thy life is a riddle...", having changed perspective again!

My only conclusion is that, if it is indeed Hydaelyn singing, then all voices and lyrics sung are from Hydaelyn's perspective. Think of the Aether, a source of life, as an equivalent to the Lifestream (again, I'm not an FFVII bandwagon fanboy). This would mean that the myriad consciousnesses and thoughts wandering the the planet, alive or as Aether, are conversing with each other in song, their thoughts and words swirling about chaotically. In that one line when all singers, including Calloway's prominent voice, sing "Answer together!", they symbolize the convergence of Aether into a crystal. The crystal goes on to say "thy life is a riddle, etc. etc.", probably speaking to the echo-gifted players (which technically includes anybody who hears it, because anyone could start up a XIV account if they wanted).

"To all of my children in whom life flows abundant/to whom death hath passed his judgement." is the core of my theory. It implies that some of the voices are among the living. Even if the living aren't conscious of the conversation, it doesn't mean they aren't part of it. All Aether is connected, even if it's left the soil to walk as a person.

It's really just my interpretation, and likely not even Uematsu's intent, but at present I see nothing disproving it. I'll maintain this theory until someone comes along and proves otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

We only see one eye. The camera only zooms-in on one eye. The other eye could very well be just fine off screen. We don't know. What we do know is that, even though the lighting is different, the character model art packet used in this scene is the exact same one used to render Shot Through the Heart, down to the same axe and same red iris color that Sthalmann doesn't have, but would sure be distinctive.

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I wasn't implying he only had one eye, I was in a joking manner suggesting he got his nickname from that stare he does with only the one eye showing in the cutscene.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I wasn't implying he only had one eye, I was in a joking manner suggesting he got his nickname from that stare he does with only the one eye showing in the cutscene.

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I figured, but I was just clarifying (only half jokingly) before it was considered as confirmed as half of the things we've accidentally come up with so far XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I figured, but I was just clarifying (only half jokingly) before it was considered as confirmed as half of the things we've accidentally come up with so far XD

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Only so much can be conveyed through text sadly. :(