Focus Classes amongst their respective Jobs

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They weren't better when they were opened ended messes of nothingness, even Yoshida didn't like how it felt that way. It was built this way specifically to flow into their jobs rather than making jobs something different, but as we seen on these forums, people were actually complaining and bitching about the concept of doing a quest to unlock a new job that and I quote: "Should be available to everyone at the start."

So the community will hold back any logical changes.

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He went beyond what was called for, he axed the majority of uniqueness that classes had and replaced it with universal crap, that later was restricted in another patch to what moves you could and couldn't cross class.

Moves like Red lotus, Circle Slash, all 7 Elemental DoTs, Mage Melee skills, Shell etc etc He didnt make anything unique he just Retarded it way down.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Wishing they would just drop this class/job folly already. classes play and feel to much like there job counterparts, so why even have classes.

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Exactly what i am suggesting effectively makes them only around half one job and half another not including class unique actions which is far more difference between class and job than in the current system. Jobs would also be far more different because they would have a larger pool of of unique abilities to choose from having thrown out the old class actions out of their pool.

i also wouldn't be opposed to classes having 5 generic skills that every class shares. They would be the same set on every class but when equipping a job you lose them and gain 10 job skills instead of 5.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

one of the biggest problems with class/job system is the stat modifier. When you change to a job you get +10 stat point of your main stat or w/e it is. Thats not enough to make the difference.

cnj should get alot more int to kill faster
both mages should get mroe def to last longer

gladiator should get less def and alot more attack power
pug, lancer and archer as a class are already pretty self sufficient for solo stuff but maybe nerf their strength and give them more hp and or def.

More drastic changes like this is what they should be doing.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I think jobs and classes should be the difference between role proficiency and flexibility.

Jobs are specific roles in party play. classes can adapt to multiple situations on their own. Stat wise, before point alloment is thrown in, a job would favor the stat of their role (PLDs=VIT, MRD= STR) and Classes would be better all rounders.

A PLD is specialized for a defensive role, but is not as offensively set as a GLA, and while a GLA would be able to use defensive abilities from other classes, but they are not as effective as the PLD's special abilities in tanking.

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This is how it should have been, but like I said they went too far with their class changes and really eliminated the need for any class except THM. Limiting all classes to 15 skills + 10 other/5 other-5 job was the main killer of the class system imo, and they should have just gotten rid of them at that point.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

one of the biggest problems with class/job system is the stat modifier. When you change to a job you get +10 stat point of your main stat or w/e it is. Thats not enough to make the difference.

cnj should get alot more int to kill faster
both mages should get mroe def to last longer

gladiator should get less def and alot more attack power
pug, lancer and archer as a class are already pretty self sufficient for solo stuff but maybe nerf their strength and give them more hp and or def.

More drastic changes like this is what they should be doing.

also jobs should get traits that boost their cross class skills while classes should not.

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No thanks to better DD on CNJ...

Its pretty screwy - with DD gear on a CNJ it can compete with a THM, a WHM with a BLM on damage. So long as the monster doesn't have resistance to either elements (WHM owns stone/wind weak monsters, and BLM against lightning weak (not much is ice/fire and the spells themselves being aoe hampers the action)). There is a difference but it is negligible..

CNJ/WHM - Support, THM/BLM - Damage

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Originally Posted by Shougun

No thanks to better DD on CNJ...

Its pretty screwy - with DD gear on a CNJ it can compete with a THM, a WHM with a BLM on damage. So long as the monster doesnt have resistance to either elements. There is a difference but it is negligible..

CNJ/WHM - Support, THM/BLM - Damage

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The first paragraph is were i mention that jobs stats should be much more advanced compared to classes so thm and cnj damage should be pretty equal for solo play since that's what it is. when you switch to job is when you would see a giant increase in blm damage and an increase in whm healing making them better for a role.

This thread is pretty dumb in my opinion. jobs will always be the better choice. they are UPGRADES of the classes please don't bring us back to the beginning of 1.0 ty :)

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

The first paragraph is were i mention that jobs stats should be much more advanced compared to classes so thm and cnj damage should be pretty equal for solo play since that's what it is. when you switch to job is when you would see a giant increase in blm damage and an increase in whm healing making them better for a role.

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Ah, I read the part where you said +10 isnt good enough but then your examples appeared to be buffing classes only. So I was figuring the boost in damage from CNJ (in your example) would carry into WHM making them even more competitive to BLM.

Perhaps my bias to the slightly re-envisioned BLM/WHM but I really dont want to see any damage competitiveness between those two mage jobs - it should be blatantly obvious (if anyone has tried a proper DD WHM setup its not that bad actually - just missing some hate resets BLM has).

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Originally Posted by ShadowVolt

This thread is pretty dumb in my opinion. jobs will always be the better choice. they are UPGRADES of the classes please don't bring us back to the beginning of 1.0 ty :)

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They weren't supposed to be (they were supposed to be specializations that lost flexibility - though it ended up being in many cases no point not to go a job class (with the general intention that you go job in parties and class in solo play)). However, THM is a very common end game choice. Often a THM can save a team where a BLM would have failed and the party would have wiped.

they just need to make the classes more like THM/MRD they are by far best examples to show how the class/job role should be done.

THM is great solo, and does what a class should do, BLM is pure DD can can't do any support

MRD is a great DD but when it changes to war it dps goes down to become more tanky.

I also forgot arc is a great DD when used as a class also.

I feel they should just make class only action that focus on soloing/light pt's. Also adding some class only traits for classes would be nice as well.

Yoshida himself told us he did not want us to think of jobs as Advanced classes, but now look at them.....