What happened to the 8 years of data and market analysis?

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I agree with Zaena as well. I feel it was basically a combination of being rushed out due to poor upper management (the bean-counters' fault, not the development team leads) and lack of play-testing due to this.

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CFO: "Now that you have a working tech Demo, if you don't release a game in 5 years, you're in BIIIG trouble."

Mr. Tanaka: Okay...

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Originally Posted by Zaene

I cannot help commenting on obscure references. You sir win the internet. Plucky approves of this post.

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Do I get a free game of miniature golf?

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I think that FFXIV wasn't even a Final Fantasy MMO to begin with and probably very late into the development they decided to make it a Final Fantasy one as they figured it would increase sales. Then they would have had to strip away all of the content that they had and make it more FF'ish and change other systems and things to put them more in line with Final Fantasy.

It certainly would explain a lot about this game and it's current state and lack of content.

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As sad as it is to admit, I've always had a nagging feeling about this exact thing while playing. It might be due to the lack of key elements that just didn't make it into the game in time, but it also might be because "Rapture" was supposed to be its own stand alone thing that got caught up in Final Fantasy marketing.

I enjoy what's there, but there isn't much of it right now. How did this go wrong?

I'm loathe to put the blame strictly on Tanaka because it's a pretty common corporate practice to take the heat like he did. This isn't to absolve him of any guilt however, it's just my own mind at work.

Regardless, I sincerely hope SE takes this as a lesson, and is able to deliver on a great game eventually.

Also seriously hoping for more info on just what kind of stuff is going to happen to the game by the end of this week. Can't give feedback if there's nothing to give feedback on.

Thanks for the clarification alexia, I am inclined to agree with you. It sounds like Wada just said, stick the FF name on it and lets sell a hundred gazillion copies this year.

Without the FF name, SE has found their MMOs (and games) do not sell as well. Akin to how Koei or TecmoKoei slaps Dynasty Warriors onto Gundam just to let you know.

Fantasy Earth comes to mind in terms of the MMO.

Would we have bought FFXI if it was called something else? (I would've anyway, hehe)

I will also throw in my chips and put the pressure back on Wada for the decision that hurt the game. BUT, I think FFXIV is more the wake up call that SE needed in regards to online content.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I think that FFXIV wasn't even a Final Fantasy MMO to begin with and probably very late into the development they decided to make it a Final Fantasy one as they figured it would increase sales. Then they would have had to strip away all of the content that they had and make it more FF'ish and change other systems and things to put them more in line with Final Fantasy.

It certainly would explain a lot about this game and it's current state and lack of content.

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Although S-E clearly doesn't have a problem with doing that (Final Fantasy Adventure = Seiken Densetsu, Final Fantasy Legends = SaGa) I don't think that was the case with FFXIV. The tech demo from 2005 looked very FF-ish. Crystal Tools taking as long as it did to develop was most likely the real culprit.

IIRC, the reason why they called it Rapture was because they weren't sure what number FF would be out by the time they released it (meaning FFXIII might have ended up coming out after FFXIV, so FFXIV would have been named FFXIII and FFXIII would have named FFXIV.)

Using provisional project names before finalization is a common practice in game development, it makes the name decision process less hurried, and it reduces the chance of leaks before the developer is ready to make an announcement. I doubt there has ever been any doubt that this game was supposed to be a final fantasy.

As for the "8 years of market research", I can just lol. The history of gaming is spotted by a TON of sequels that didn't do as well as the previous title, or that had a much more difficult start.
Some developers don't like to rest on their successes and try to offer something new with every new game. And that's a good thing, because if that didn't happen, we'd still be playing pong, pacman and ultima online.
"market research" will bring you only so far, especially in a fossilized market as this one. Unless, of course, you try on getting the usual small slice of the pie by cloning what came before.

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one can only ponder what happened between the FFXIV Tech Demo in 2005 and the creation of the world and systems for the next 5 years.

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What happened? What happened is included in that same sentence, and anyone with the slightest experience in game development (or logic) would know that without needing to "ponder".
The "creation of the world" happened. Creating a "world" with the size and scope of a MMORPG has entirely different challenges and especially *limitations* than creating a 3 minutes clip for a tech demo.
It's not rocket science, but it's no surprise that someone would try and use it as ammo for a bashing agenda.

You can pretty much spot a thread by a certain someone just by reading the topic. The more inflamatory and bashing, the more there's a chance that the thread is his.

Basically FF14 project is has a bunch of stupid ideas, that was never told "it was stupid".

There's nothing wrong with crack pot, half baked idea that sounded fun when you wrote it on paper, but there has be a voice of reason to question those ideas, to either change it or mold it.

Didn't appear any of that happened in FF14 development. you just got a bunch of looney stuff welled together.

Added with the release without peer-review, and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Whatever research they had, probably went into the bin with all the beta testers feedback. The filing room in the basement likely.

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Originally Posted by Xeno

The polls are just a PR stunt. SE will always do what SE wants.

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The more I refer back to the Yoshida's discussion after the second poll, the more that thought has become relevant in my head as well. Especially:

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To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised by the response to Question 8, as are Matsui and Gondai on the battle team. We certainly didn't think that over 50% of players would be for doing away with physical levels. This would entail some pretty big changes tied in with enhancing class uniqueness. But we're coming to realize now that most of you seem to be saying you're fine with radical changes as long as they make the game more fun. We'll definitely refer to this data when coming up with new specs, and will be implementing them when we can!

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Each answer has that well-crafted PR touch. It's like they are saying:

"We hear what you want, and if it falls in line with what we already had planned it will be implemented. Otherwise, we will refer to this valuable information in the future."

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Originally Posted by Fieros

"We hear what you want, and if it falls in line with what we already had planned it will be implemented. Otherwise, we will refer to this valuable information in the future."

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Which is pretty much what any developer should do (and does). Request feedback to know what people want, and then take it into *very limited* consideration, while applying their own vision.
Game development (and development in general) has never been and should never be a democratic process.

I think when Tanaka made those indignant tweets about the fatigue system it was time for him to go.