Genius Move from SE

I actually adored what they showed for BRD.

I think the changes are great. I'm curious for the other jobs.

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Originally Posted by StarryVera

Except buttons don't = uniqueness, Evolved BRD is quite literally copy pasted Endwalker SMN. The entire job is revolving around collecting your 3 candies, then using a big attack. This is the type of job design they want to force us into for every job, first with SMN, then with MNK, now with everything. They are removing all uniqueness from jobs and taking anything unique they have about them away, where are BRD's DOTs and procs? BRD was already one of the more unique jobs the game had because of the songs not being directly aligned with the 2 mins, along with procs determining how you played your filler, it wasn't hard by any means, and yet they've gone and lobotomized that.

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With current bard you still collect your three sour gummies and eat them to do a party buff, effectively it's the same but with the 2min change they swapped out the buff with attacks. At the end of the day it boils down to which looks more "fun" and to me that's new Bard, sure I also like current SMN which apparently isn't popular here but I've been an on again off again SMN main since 2.0 launch (Archer/Lancer main on my original 1.0 account if that means anything too)

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

With current bard you still collect your three sour gummies and eat them to do a party buff, effectively it's the same but with the 2min change they swapped out the buff with attacks. At the end of the day it boils down to which looks more "fun" and to me that's new Bard, sure I also like current SMN which apparently isn't popular here but I've been an on again off again SMN main since 2.0 launch (Archer/Lancer main on my original 1.0 account if that means anything too)

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I'd tentatively agree but as I was pointed out in the DPS subforums, where have gone my damn rng and procs??? Are they trying to pull an AST or what? That's not acceptable whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

With current bard you still collect your three sour gummies and eat them to do a party buff, effectively it's the same but with the 2min change they swapped out the buff with attacks. At the end of the day it boils down to which looks more "fun" and to me that's new Bard, sure I also like current SMN which apparently isn't popular here but I've been an on again off again SMN main since 2.0 launch (Archer/Lancer main on my original 1.0 account if that means anything too)

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Except that's the problem, you are saying you think Evolved BRD looks fun because it is similar to current SMN. That is a BAD THING that is the complete opposite of job identity that we have been asking for for years now. If we see more jobs during the media tour or even Berlin and they are anywhere similar to what we just saw which in reality was just melee SMN, Phys Ranged SMN, and the easiest job in the game being simplified more then we are in for a serious problem.

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Originally Posted by StarryVera

Except that's the problem, you are saying you think Evolved BRD looks fun because it is similar to current SMN. That is a BAD THING that is the complete opposite of job identity that we have been asking for for years now. If we see more jobs during the media tour or even Berlin and they are anywhere similar to what we just saw which in reality was just melee SMN, Phys Ranged SMN, and the easiest job in the game being simplified more then we are in for a serious problem.

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You confuse job identity with complexity here.
SMN has a very good job identity, far better than it was in the past. It has a horrible job complexity though without a skill ceiling.

Both are different things that should be there at the same time in a job.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

You confuse job identity with complexity here.

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I'm not. SMN Job Identity is summoning, which it barely does. Most of its attacks come from the caster as different buttons that it presses with very few actually coming from the summons itself outside of Bahamut phase. BRDs Job Identity was dots and support, and seeing the dots have been the ONE thing it has kept all this time, it is very difficult to say that isn't part of its identity, and it is losing that come 8.0 almost entirely. (No, 3 second dots that only tick a single time is not enough to warrant "identity"). It's losing access to Minne on demand and Warden's Paeon, one might be niche but was still a night and day difference when it was useful. Perfect examples are M12S Doom Towers, and TEA. Minne is an incredibly useful tool especially in something like M12S Phase 1 where you want to use both mitigation and healing boosts separately because of the damage output of the fight to increase help for healers. This is removal of Identity. If DNC Shield Samba also gets the increased heal attached to it come 8.0, why are you running a BRD? There should be scenarios where some jobs play into a fights gimmick more than others, and what they currently showed does not align with that. Animations don't determine identity, playstyle does, and if every job is just boiled down to "collect the 3 gummies, do a big burst, repeat" then there is no job identity anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The only skill expression on healers since like Heavensward or Stormblood, has been their healing plan in high-end content ie. which heal for which mechanic. Coordinating with co-healer when to use Seraph, etc.

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A big part of the problem is that many have been complaining about this since that era and not only have been ignored but then the devs just double down on their design. I'm curious what numbers look like. I assume at this point that pushing away all the career healers that spent all their game hours playing healer in a variety of content was worth it and that more people play healers across the board now? it certainly doesn't feel that way but maybe I'm missing something. I mean if that's not it I'm not sure what we're doing.

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Originally Posted by StarryVera

I'm not. SMN Job Identity is summoning, which it barely does. Most of its attacks come from the caster as different buttons that it presses with very few actually coming from the summons itself outside of Bahamut phase. BRDs Job Identity was dots and support, and seeing the dots have been the ONE thing it has kept all this time, it is very difficult to say that isn't part of its identity, and it is losing that come 8.0 almost entirely. (No, 3 second dots that only tick a single time is not enough to warrant "identity"). It's losing access to Minne on demand and Warden's Paeon, one might be niche but was still a night and day difference when it was useful. Perfect examples are M12S Doom Towers, and TEA. Minne is an incredibly useful tool especially in something like M12S Phase 1 where you want to use both mitigation and healing boosts separately because of the damage output of the fight to increase help for healers. This is removal of Identity. If DNC Shield Samba also gets the increased heal attached to it come 8.0, why are you running a BRD? There should be scenarios where some jobs play into a fights gimmick more than others, and what they currently showed does not align with that. Animations don't determine identity, playstyle does, and if every job is just boiled down to "collect the 3 gummies, do a big burst, repeat" then there is no job identity anymore.

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SMN has a good job identity. It summons primals that do a big attack, maybe not enough of them but it absolutely does what a SMN in this franchise does and no, it does not summon too little just too monotonous.

I don't talk about BRD or DNC here, why you would take one over the other or what is useful in TEA though I would agree that the jobs should have different tools for different situations that are close to their identity like the DRG high jump.
I am also not advocating for all jobs to turn into SMN, never did but job identity is not just playstyle but also animations, otherwise we can close the game because at the end of the day SMN and BLM do the same thing, namely damage numbers.

I would completely agree if you said the identity of SMN is not enough because it has not enough summons or that those summons should have different effects but that's all.
Edit:
I absolutely agree that SMN needs more and that the jobs definitely do need more complexity again but job identity should not be how jobs perform in some Ultimate or Savage fight. That should be a bonus for outside the box thinking.
Job identity begins far lower.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

As for their attacks, they showed off that the healer attacks change because they know that spamming the same animation over and over gets samey. Which, is at least better than how we've all been spamming Broil, Glare, Dosis, etc.

Those attacks will probably be on 1 button considering the other jobs are having their combos merged into one button. But that's really just a general thing not restricted to healers.

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Healers over in the healer section for years: We are tired of spamming one button boss.
Square "listening" to feedback: condenses all job combos to a single button.

Welp, any healer that complained about the state of the battle system knows Square's response. Here's your one button setup for everyone. I mean, there is a reason some of us don't play pseudo 'evolved' classes like PCT. The illusion that you're doing a different action but pressing the same button can't fool everyone.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I do find it kind of amusing that some of the same names I saw mock healers over the strike for the last couple of years across the forums, social media, and Youtube are up in arms over what's about to happen to tanks and DPS with evolved mode. The number of WAR mains in particular losing their minds at being told they're off-tanks now instead of continuing to enjoy "main protagonist syndrome" has been especially funny.

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The problem is, people have been reading or seeing something, instantly coming to a conclusion and then posting based on that initial, emotional reaction. If they just stopped, go back over things and draw more logical conclusions, you wouldn't have the masse outcries of people which are clearly and emotional outburst.