Jobs: The second crystal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazai

We should not limit Final Fantasy.
Jobs are not set in stone.

I personally love commanding the undead, I do not want a silly puppet that I felt made no sense in FF. I did love Vivi but thats it.

---

We don't limit FF -- the series has an established history, mythos, and design approach to it.

Some people just want to copy-paste their favorite WoW/Diablo class into the game without taking the established FF mythos into consideration.

With 14 games in the main series, the Tactics games and more in spinoffs/sequels, it's best to build off of the established lore before trying to deviate from the rule - (And deviating from the rule is something I'd reserve for Yosh and other lead designers at SE alone)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

We don't limit FF -- the series has an established history, mythos, and design approach to it.

Some people just want to copy-paste their favorite WoW/Diablo class into the game without taking the established FF mythos into consideration.

With 14 games in the main series, the Tactics games and more in spinoffs/sequels, it's best to build off of the established lore before trying to deviate from the rule - (And deviating from the rule is something I'd reserve for Yosh and other lead designers at SE alone)

---

So these golden rules of all final fantasies mean we shouldn't discuss new jobs? That's for Yoshi and his team to decide alone?

That kind of thinking only holds back innovation. (That's what this game really needs)

Thief could be an option for Gladiator since the latter is capable of wielding daggers. If they don't plan on having THF branch from GLA, they should really take daggers away from GLA.

I think the class system as it is now is very limiting in what new jobs can branch off of them. It seems kind of a waste to make a brand new class for every job since classes are pretty underutilized as they are.

For the example of Dark Knight, as OP pointed out, Lancer is the obvious choice due to the abilities that damage themselves to boost their damage output, however, Marauder or Gladiator seem like a more logical choice for the job to branch off of from a lore perspective. Gladiator is very defensive based and it's hard to justify having a pure damage dealing class like the Dark Knight branch off of it though, and Marauder is almost in the same boat.

It doesn't seem like the format of classes and jobs are changing anytime soon with the leak of Arcanist > Summoner. While I don't see new jobs branching from existing classes happening anytime soon, I hope when the time comes they can make it work out ok. I would be a bit disappointed for them to just keep creating new classes that end up becoming obsolete once you have the job unlocked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

We don't limit FF -- the series has an established history, mythos, and design approach to it.

Some people just want to copy-paste their favorite WoW/Diablo class into the game without taking the established FF mythos into consideration.

With 14 games in the main series, the Tactics games and more in spinoffs/sequels, it's best to build off of the established lore before trying to deviate from the rule - (And deviating from the rule is something I'd reserve for Yosh and other lead designers at SE alone)

---

I just hope the dev team on FFXIV can do something new and refreshing for Final Fantasy as a whole. So that when 16 or 17 comes out people can say "put job [blank] from XiV in this game."

I know Yoshi has what it takes and I hope he and the dev team express their creativity with new jobs and/or primals.
Look at the concept art for the new zones in 2.0...simply breath taking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Gladiatior -

---

There is a thread about this on the GLA subforum. i've posted my thought on it there. I'll all for the gunblade though.

I personally feel that GLA should be restricted to single handed weapons. the shield abilities should be reworked to be usable with and without a shield. until that happens GLA is locked in to tanking, as you need to block to make the abilities useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Marauder - Marauder is also very particular and I had much difficulty finding the best ways to manage it. It is geared very much towards bruiser type jobs so its hard to put any kind of hybrid twist on it.
-> Beast Master
I think if arcanist gives pet management sub abilities it will be a viable option of beast master, yet this job is still very obscure. I'm not even sure if monster correlation exists in this game.
-> Viking
Taking a different approach than warrior, the viking subs THM and takes on a melee/mage combination. To ensure that their magic damage is up to strength it would require the use of a way to power up your magics before use. For further info on viking please consult my guide.

---

Right now MRD can easily fulfill one of two roles. Tank and DD. WAR is a tank class currently.

a more focused DD class would be nice. I like the Viking idea. but i'd love to see it dual wield axes. but if it's sub THM might as well just call it DRK. makes more sense IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Lancer - Here is where I really want to see Dark Knight as it's potential is at it's greatest. Abilities like life surge and blood for blood already make it the prime suspect for the Dark Knight job. What does Dark Knight bring to the table as a role? Sustain tanking. Many a times I will end up in a party that can't happen to find a GLA or MRD to tank so we end up with the LNC tank.
-> Dark Knight
Dark Knight is probably one of the few jobs that can easily make it into the game RIGHT NOW with the current classes we have available for sub abilities. A sub of THM and MRD will help Dark Knight in sustain tanking using provoke necrogenesis, and blood bath.

---

I'm not 100% sold on the DRK here being a tank. but i do agree it woudl make sense for LNC to spawn a tank-like class. the high PIE score would allow for mitigation of magic damage.

But I'd honestly rather see an enfeebling/support class come from LNC. the high PIE score will help it land those enfeebles and not sacrifice damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Pugilist - Pugilist is also very obscure with the classes we currently have but It does seem to present a few options.
-> Dancer
Taking on some healing ability from conjurer and a few enfeebling ablities (see my guide) dancer can feel a lot like it's FFXI counterpart. I would like to see this style of dancer come to ffxiv whereas it utilizes dances to wither enemies and support your allies.

---

I always pictured THF spawning form pug. dance also makes sense and i could see a support like class spawning from pug too. but i'm not sure how viable it would be.

pug also has taunt, so i could see a tank spawning from this class too. an eva tank to take advantage of featherfoot and haymaker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Archer - I know what everyone wants is what they originally anticipated.
-> Ranger
Capitalizing on Archer's ranged DPS rangers quickly become on par with the damage of dragoons and monks. To make them that much more unique I propose sharpshooting techniques to help dismantle your enemies body parts easy. I do not recommend bringing ranger to musketeer's first job. Musketeer has a few more viable and fun choices, please refer to my guide. Although, I do believe it will require a musketeer sub job to make ranger what it should be on Archer.

---

agreed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Conjurer - Im expecting conjurer's next job to explore it's offensive magic.
-> Geomancer
Geomancer is a great choice of this as it brings home conjurer's natural elements. Geomancer is Black Mage's cousin and handles the natural ancient magic of Quake and Tornado. Terrain and Weather also go hand in hand with the conjurer class.

---

agreed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Thaumaturge - At this point many could wonder what even fits on thaumaturge but if there's one thing it would be the dreaded Necromancer.
-> Necromancer
Many have requested it and it ties in perfect with the lore of the Thaumaturges guild. Again with arcanist having pet management abilities you should be able to handed undead with sub action abilities. Dark Flare or Dark Firaga would be a great combo spell to use in the Fire combo chain.

---

i think this would overlap with the speculated arcanist/summoner too much. i think the next viable path forward for THM is to have something more enfeebling based.

----------------

we badly need another healing class. I'd love to see chemist make an appearance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Oh look, it's the job making game again.

"wave of jobs?" atm as far as I can see we're just getting the "missing classes" (musketeer, arcanaist) and jobs for those classes (???, arcanist). Anything beyond that will probably be in an expansion.

"the more jobs the better!"
- I'd rather have a few jobs done right than a bunch of jobs with less thought behind them.

DRK is one of the few I see people talking about that's likely to come anytime soon, but I don't know that it would go off gladiator, I think marauder would be far more likely.

---

I'd like it if you didn't belittle the subject. I put some serious time and effort into making a speculation guide. Perhaps I'm wrong about my speculations, but I like to think I'm making a good contribution to the game by breaking down each job and figuring out how this rigid system works for the greatest amount of possibilities for the best results of a job. You apparently did not even look at the speculation guide which can be found in my link, which each job had extensive thought put into them, and while some of it is a work in progress, I would appreciate discussion that is constructive to the process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Onisake

I always pictured THF spawning form pug. dancer also makes sense and i could see a support like class spawning from pug too. but i'm not sure how viable it would be.

pug also has taunt, so i could see a tank spawning from this class too. an eva tank to take advantage of featherfoot and haymaker.

---

I'm always iffy with pugilist and thief, I feel that it doesn't do thief enough justice. I'd rather wait until a scout class and see it done right than rush it onto pugilist where it doesn't have much any of a stealth feel. When I think about dancer I think that curing waltz can be used as a great AoE heal based on TP. When it gets to classes like this you begin to see a lot of hybrid DD/Healers, somewhat like the Necromancer. But healing is just a party element and not something that should just be stuck on a role like white mage is bound simply because it is the prime healer/support. Take paladin for example. Paladin should be able to HEAL the team and tank. They should be able to take a white mage out of the formula, but due to insufficiant ability, they fall short.

I think the evasion tank is a good prospect but I'm still iffy about it. Only time will tell what the dev team actually decides to do.

Thank you for a constructive post btw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

I'd like it if you didn't belittle the subject. I put some serious time and effort into making a speculation guide. Perhaps I'm wrong about my speculations, but I like to think I'm making a good contribution to the game by breaking down each job and figuring out how this rigid system works for the greatest amount of possibilities for the best results of a job. You apparently did not even look at the speculation guide which can be found in my link, which each job had extensive thought put into them, and while some of it is a work in progress, I would appreciate discussion that is constructive to the process.

---

I don't even understand writing a "guide" to speculation. Let people speculate about whatever they want. Speculation can be fun, personally I would rather be realistic and think about what's actually probable rather than inventing a bunch of jobs and hoping they implement them. That being said, speculation doesn't need any guidelines. This is fantasizing about what you'd like to see in the game- any expectation of actual implementation is unrealistic.

Well, I don't really agree much with the OP and I can tell you outright MRD will never become BST - we confirmed ages ago that "Shepard" was in the .dats, which will likely be the base class for BST. I imagine Assassin will function as either THF or NIN's base class as well (Bard & Dancer were in there as well along with SAM and Musketeer, but it's interesting to note that Bard ended up being a job, not a class).

GLA is is mostly fine, but I do feel it was a huge mistake removing Circle Blade as PLD really lacks any kind of AoE offensive skill - Steel Cyclone is a big part of what makes WAR so attractive as a tank. PLD could also stand to receive some more defensive buffing to make it a better alternative to WAR as currently WAR takes the hits almost (if not just) as well as a PLD while dealing out significantly more dps. I repeat - DO NOT NERF WAR, BUFF PLD SE! We don't need a repeat of XI. Lastly I'd like to point out that Fencer was also confirmed, and in early interviews Tanaka had visions of making it a job for GLA - one that would attack/gain sword skill faster. My guess is they use it as a base class for RDM and have THM as the other required class (using CNJ as the 2nd class for subskills on the action bar)

Not much to say about MRD, except that WAR is a little disappointing on the DD front. It's a great class overall, much better than it was in XI, but I was sad to see the only real offensive skill gained as WAR was Steel Cyclone (I don't count Mighty Strikes since it's a special, and they cut its duration in half). Honestly, I think they should just remove the gradual fading of Rampage altogether and change berserk back to how it worked in XI - +25% attack and -25% defense. Currently it actually doesn't boost your attack at all until you start landing hits, and then it resets when you take damage, which is going to be quite often as WAR tends to tank a lot. Oh, but it still reduces your defense the whole time @_@. MRD should be the base class for DRK however, with THM again as the other job required and then using either LNC or GLA as the other subskill set (GLA would be more fitting, but LNC has better offensive skills to offer that are more in line with DRK's theme)

LNC - LNC has been really good so far. The only thing I'd really like to see happen is an option to have the XI Wyvern, but with trade-offs. For example, while its out you can not use any sub-skills of other classes. I don't think they need to make a separate dragon master class or anything along those lines. I like how DRG is now, but I also liked XI's version quite a bit so I think the best route is to give players the option of playing either style but restricting the other otherwise DRG would be too strong. LNC should also I feel be the base class for Samurai (Unless they add a Katana class) along with ARC as Samurai were prominent users of the Naginata & Yumi (the Katana was actually rarely used for anything but executions). But knowing SE, they'll probably make Katana the main weapon as part of a new class, in which case LNC and either ARC (Yumi) or GLA (actually, you could almost argue MRD too for Bushido because of provoke but GLA seems more fitting) would be the subskills associated.

As far as PUG goes, I'm surprised they did STR & INT and not VIT & MND (or VIT & DEX) given the playstyle and general theme of MNK. Not as much HP either as in previous installments. The class functions pretty well as a DD, could maybe use some more evasion or HP but yeah, no complaints really. I'd love to see them add PUP again as a new job if and when they get around to pet classes. Or there's also White Monk from the FFTA series, but that just seems redundant in an MMO.

ARC is a bit of an oddball. I'm still having issues wrapping my head around it being Bard this time, but that was SE's call and they made it. Honestly, at this point I don't see them getting RNG. It would be nice, but I have feeling they are saving RNG for Musketeer's job, and I'm fine with that. Really, what else are you going to do with Guns but deal massive amounts of ranged damage? And since when does a bow do more damage than a gun anyway? My only fear is they instead bring back COR for Musketeer's job, since they're more or less pirates. I liked COR in XI, but I'd rather not see a return of the gambling mechanics. Oh yeah, and BRD could really use a few more songs.

Only thing I'll say about WHM is why the hell did they remove Shell. No really, WHY?! It would have been nice to help deflect some of Megaflare's damage.

As for THM/BLM, just complete the cycle. I get that they wanted to give CNJ some DD ability, but we really should have a dedicated magical DD that can strike with all 6 elements. Give BLM Water, Earth and Air magic already.

Quote:

---

GLA is is mostly fine, but I do feel it was a huge mistake removing Circle Blade as PLD really lacks any kind of AoE offensive skill - Steel Cyclone is a big part of what makes WAR so attractive as a tank. PLD could also stand to receive some more defensive buffing to make it a better alternative to WAR as currently WAR takes the hits almost (if not just) as well as a PLD while dealing out significantly more dps. I repeat - DO NOT NERF WAR, BUFF PLD SE!

---

You can't fix every balance problem by buffing the weaker thing. Eventually you get to a point where everything hits a cieling where buffing without becoming OP is extremely difficult, you essentially buff yourself into a corner. That doesn't necessarily mean in this case that WAR is OP, I'm just saying pleading for buffs over nerfs is not constructive. It's more practical to implement whatever needs to be implemented to bring things into balance. You can't just buff everything to match the best class/job every time.

Quote:

---

ARC is a bit of an oddball. I'm still having issues wrapping my head around it being Bard this time, but that was SE's call and they made it.

---

I did find it a bit odd as well, but I like what they did with it. It makes Bard a lot more fun than it was in FFXI. I'd agree with you that if there is a ranger, it would most likely come off musketeer.