Summoner - What it needs.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Honestly, none of the jobs require any kind of thought. It's all memorizing and executing a rotation, some are just easier to memorize than others.

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your right they shouldn't cause all thinking comes from memorizing boss moves and taking any forms of damage as dps normally results in death or very angry healer. trust me when i say this. "Angry Healer is Real Omega Super boss in the game"

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Originally Posted by HanakoTheGoth

how old are you? you know your being extremely disrespectful to know. how can sit here not understand how it effects people. who fall in love grew up playing these jobs. if it was not for those games final fantasy 14 would never exist if wasn't the deep love players had for classic rpgs that games. summons always have been apart this franchise every sense final fantasy 3 in nes days. its really disrespectful the whole old summoner the concept as a whole was insult to any and every final fantasy fan who ever enjoyed the summoner role.

Yes I get you like your dots. never said they dont belong on summoner in fact welcome a fulfilling damage rotation. wasnt for 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11 there wouldnt be a 14 this game would not exist if those were not well recieved loved by the players. no it is not wrong for players loved those game want there favorite to perform like they always have. to have abiltiies and pets they always had . like imagine we must felt when they released old summoner and realm reborn. we got those "Iges" It was disappointiment complete a total failure we didnt want a clone of a warlock from wow. we wanted a summoner job. if final fantasy 11 managed to do it . there no execuse whatever what we got. that feeling you felt when they took old summoner away from you was same feeling disappointiment we felt when they released old summoner in first place if they named that class anything other then summoner wouldnt not got much heat as it did

like imagine if your black mage main they didnt give you fire, blizzard or thunder you had only scathe. thats how it feels to play summoner back then

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Can you go ring up the makers of FF 10, 11, 12 and 16 and tell them they are being disrespectful to people who fell in love with SMN in FF3 because none of them are anything similar to FF 3

And for the 3rd time I’ve literally never mentioned DOT’s one way or another

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

This is specifically adressing your criticism saying that summoner isn't true to form because the summons are not operating as pets, and I am simply saying that is not true. I wouldn't consider Yuna to be a pet style summoner either. Summons in X have a fixed duration and while you can control the for a time it's at the expense of the rest of the party. They are not permanent fixtures in combat and Yuna does not control one every moment, she in fact has a plethora of skills and magic at her disposal outside of it.

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I said it’s no more OR LESS a summoner than the old SMN because new summoner maps onto 3 4 5 and 9 about as much as old SMN maps onto 10 11 12 and 16. Neither is more right than the other

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Originally Posted by Mecia

How would you even add 4 additional summons, making it 9, while meaningfully differentiating them, adhering to button limits and the 2 minute cycle?

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I wouldn’t add 4 personally, I’d add more summons in triads, using the existing gem buttons. Levi, Shiva, Ramuh for starters, although realistically, maybe that’s as far as they’d ever go, but I could live with that because the set of elemental primals would finally be complete. They would switch out depending on what Demi they’re linked to, or alternatively split into astral/umbral teams that could be switched between by adding just one extra button for that specific purpose. So only adding one button total.

As far as “meaningfully differentiating” them, they would have their own attacks based on their primals, just like the 3 gem summons we already have. It’s not “just a reskin” unless you think Ifrit is just a reskin of Titan already. In fact, I would have the abilities of each team be the reason for why you’d want to use one team over another at any given time, just keeping the potencies roughly in the same ballpark. As someone who has a love/hate relationship with the 2 minute meta, this approach would still fit, but in your other minute you’d have the 3 new gems instead of just repeating Ifrit/Titan/Garuda. Which is probably why this would be the best we could hope for in the current framework, even though those gem buttons could be switched out to any number of triads of summons. But it’s highly unlikely they’d add on another chain to the rotation, so the only way I see us getting more summons after that would be if higher levels let us pick and choose between available skills/summons to attach to the gems.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

I want to have to think which button I should push next, actually.

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I will say this, about that topic: Looking at all the classes in the game and at all the states the class design had sind ARR...

This isn't the MMORPG you'll want to play if that is your desired gameplay. I'm sorry to say. This game has always used "Static Rotation"-type classes as their sole design goal, and has aggressively fought itself on every instance where it had a mechanic that even hinted at breaking this (see Dancer procs largely being irrelevant to your rotation, see how old Astro was a game of resisting randomness not accepting it, see how resource starving or resource overflowing jobs got rebalanced over time). This is not a game that will ever engage with "Not static". It just won't happen. Or it would have already. Sadly.

The problem they have on their hands is 'Beastmaster'. It probably has taken a lot of ideas they would've otherwise used on SMN.

Im really curious to see what they come up with, and hope that it isnt to simply add one or two more buttons to the existing rotation.

Take some inspiration from FF16 and have the different primal stances have complete meele moves and long charge attacks etc.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

I wouldn’t add 4 personally, I’d add more summons in triads, using the existing gem buttons. Levi, Shiva, Ramuh for starters, although realistically, maybe that’s as far as they’d ever go, but I could live with that because the set of elemental primals would finally be complete. They would switch out depending on what Demi they’re linked to, or alternatively split into astral/umbral teams that could be switched between by adding just one extra button for that specific purpose. So only adding one button total.

As far as “meaningfully differentiating” them, they would have their own attacks based on their primals, just like the 3 gem summons we already have. It’s not “just a reskin” unless you think Ifrit is just a reskin of Titan already. In fact, I would have the abilities of each team be the reason for why you’d want to use one team over another at any given time, just keeping the potencies roughly in the same ballpark. As someone who has a love/hate relationship with the 2 minute meta, this approach would still fit, but in your other minute you’d have the 3 new gems instead of just repeating Ifrit/Titan/Garuda. Which is probably why this would be the best we could hope for in the current framework, even though those gem buttons could be switched out to any number of triads of summons. But it’s highly unlikely they’d add on another chain to the rotation, so the only way I see us getting more summons after that would be if higher levels let us pick and choose between available skills/summons to attach to the gems.

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kinda like blue mage where you can pick and choice your gems i mean you fought them in 1 v 1 battle made them submit i dont see why not

I know this is Sacrilege, but they should look at how Wow does Demonology Warlock. In that your main thing is summoning things that spawn, do an attack and then go away.
Then you plan around having x number pets active before summoning your gigia summon that either empowers the others or is empowered by them.
You can sacrifice your minor pets for a burst in damage, which you need to do as they ll expire after a while anyway.
Random summons appear on a proc basic do damage and then vanish.

It feels like a summoning job because everything you do is around summoning or empowering summons.
it even has an old style egi, as your prime pet, while others pop in as and when.

Im not saying lift and shift, but take lessons from how that job is because it breathes being a pet class, over summoner which feels like juggling coloured bricks for flashy animations.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Can you go ring up the makers of FF 10, 11, 12 and 16 and tell them they are being disrespectful to people who fell in love with SMN in FF3 because none of them are anything similar to FF 3

And for the 3rd time I’ve literally never mentioned DOT’s one way or another



I said it’s no more OR LESS a summoner than the old SMN because new summoner maps onto 3 4 5 and 9 about as much as old SMN maps onto 10 11 12 and 16. Neither is more right than the other

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what is this? seriously i said 10 and 11 . and 12 was apart of final fantasy tactics universe everything in 12 was spot on if we talkin about final fantasy tactics lore. however 16 I played it making final fantasy game equalivant a kaiju. no 8 ismt a summoner even thou i will say fact being able transform into one have massive kaiju' battles was pretty cool. still wasn't a summoner

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I know this is Sacrilege, but they should look at how Wow does Demonology Warlock. In that your main thing is summoning things that spawn, do an attack and then go away.
Then you plan around having x number pets active before summoning your gigia summon that either empowers the others or is empowered by them.
You can sacrifice your minor pets for a burst in damage, which you need to do as they ll expire after a while anyway.
Random summons appear on a proc basic do damage and then vanish.

It feels like a summoning job because everything you do is around summoning or empowering summons.
it even has an old style egi, as your prime pet, while others pop in as and when.

Im not saying lift and shift, but take lessons from how that job is because it breathes being a pet class, over summoner which feels like juggling coloured bricks for flashy animations.

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only took those colors cause of gems/carbuncle colors of crystals they those summons preprosant. problem is there other crystals they keep ignoring lightning, ice, water and fact that carbuncle doesnt even attack anymore

For me, I like that current SMN at least has a striking resemblance to some of my favorite FF summoners - call down powerful being, something happens etc. At its base that’s a good starting point. I think the issue is:

1. The casting rotation during/between big summons needs to be more diverse - they have a good idea with Ifrit phase’s slow, harder hitting casts, Titan’s quick OGCD’s etc., but between Bahamut and Phoenix, it’s the same thing, over and over. More small, unique Primal phases featuring diverse interactions from the player would be a step in the right direction.

2. We have too much Bahamut, and the big phases are essentially the same. The Bahamut phase should play differently than Phoenix, and we do NOT need two Bahamuts. Replace Solar with another epic primal and give us unique rotations/interactions for each.

3. Add Evoker-style mechanics, allowing the SMN to take on aspects of Primals, much like Clive in FF16. This could be a fun way to add close-range combat into the mix, or at least add some diverse flavor to the job.