machinist main crashing out

SE has been too hesitant to make meaningful DPS checks since Abyssos. I doubt PF will need to lock any job out, and MCH is now closer to DNC and BRD than it was in the first tier (which was a joke). It's still Savage PF and people need to look for good players rather than good jobs.

With that said, MCH is still in a bad spot and desperately needs a raid buff before 8.0. SE continues to overlook the fact that only DNC and BRD benefit from buffs to other jobs. On top of that, it seems SE is going for a 15% ranged tax, which makes a pure aDPS physical ranged job simply not feasible.

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Originally Posted by Nadda

I guess I'm just surprised cuz this is the first I've heard of it.
I'm a whitemage main and there have been times where White Mage isn't considered the best healer.
But I've never been excluded for not being scholar, astro or sage. I mean maybe HW cuz I think Scholars were like the best back then? but I was too new.

That really sucks if that happens in high volume for players. That's all I can say. I always thought "You can beat the raid with any job" so there be no point.

That's really lame sorry Machanist mains :( I've played with many in statics and linkshells I'm in - I've never had an issue with MCH they come in do decent damage with almost no mistakes. I can't ask for more.
If it's any consolation if I ran my own group I'd not discriminate :)

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You haven't been here for long - this has always happened to an extent. Most players who are looking to clear just want the party that gives them the least risk, and tierpicking/locking out jobs is a means to an end in that regard. Healers are close enough together, though where I grew up there was healer lockout happening for WHM to an extent due to AST being so much more beneficial than it. MCH would get locked out in favor of bard because it synergized much better with other jobs, etc.

Shadowbringers alleviated this to an extent by deleting job synergy completely, but it never *really* went away. There will always be players locking others out based on job because of the leeway other jobs will give them due to just being straight up better.
At the end of the day, this is inherently a numbers game. I don't know if you've played other RPGs before, but in other RPGs you also tend to pick the guy with the better stats over the one you need to work harder with. Because if you hit the 0.1% with a MCH, you would've cleared with a DNC or BRD. You can't vet other players coming in (officially speaking), so you don't know what they're capable of. So, the natural response is just to take what's best and leave the rest.

One of my friends I used to raid with was a MCH, and since we were 5 people we could usually get away with it by being able to vouch for them even when they were locked out in overall PF, but I wouldn't want to be a solo MCH in PF right now.

It's a problem the devs sought to solve, but never really did because they never did get the balancing right, and at this point it kinda looks like they've just thrown their hands up in the air entirely.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

SE has been too hesitant to make meaningful DPS checks since Abyssos. I doubt PF will need to lock any job out, and MCH is now closer to DNC and BRD than it was in the first tier (which was a joke). It's still Savage PF and people need to look for good players rather than good jobs.

With that said, MCH is still in a bad spot and desperately needs a raid buff before 8.0. SE continues to overlook the fact that only DNC and BRD benefit from buffs to other jobs. On top of that, it seems SE is going for a 15% ranged tax, which makes a pure aDPS physical ranged job simply not feasible.

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We’ll have to see how the dps checks are this time around. SE admitted the dps checks for Light Heavyweight were too easily, iirc they said something about not properly accounting for a lot of jobs being buffed around its release.

If MCH was given a raid buff then SE still needs to be able to do the math right, otherwise they’ll just nerf the nDPS/aDPS to the point where MCH is still worse than BRD/DNC.

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Originally Posted by Nuketini

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T LOCK OUT MACHINIST FROM YOUR SAVAGE PFs I AM BEGGING YOU PLEASE I DON'T WANNA PLAY DANCER NO I PUT THOUSANDS OF HOURS INTO MY MACHINIST I DON'T WANNA LEARN BARD I PROMISE I CAN PLAY THE GAME AND BE USEFUL TO THE TEAM JUST PLEEEEAASE LET ME PLAY THE JOB I LIKE I DON'T LIKE THE OTHER PHYS RANGED MACHINIST IS GOOD AND VIABLE I PROMISE JUST PLEASE DON'T LOCK IT OUT I AM BEGGING YOU :(

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just play something else until they fix it. i changed from mch to rpr when they started doing this in 6.2 I had been a mch for almost 5 years before that and was annoyed i had to swap to a melee of all things, bard was very difficult and dancers constant ddr is something i will still never touch. Now i main rpr with viper on the side and gnb tank

it saddens me to see mch once again englected like this, gg square you made me give up my fav job. because even tho some ppl can argue dps doesnt matter, when it comes to svaages, mch will allways be a hindrance to other ranged jobs.

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Originally Posted by Xapapetsu

Were they really? Last tier wasn't even bad when it came to damage checks. I don't play phys ranged so I never paid attention to it, I just leave it open for all phys ranged jobs when I put a pf up.

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in crystal and primal, yeah. not sure about aether but im sure it wasnt much different. not everyone ofc, but ive struggled enough to be forced to go dnc, and even then, there were parties locking prange out entirely in favor of 2 melee and 2 casters lol

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

just play something else until they fix it.

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Changed at 5.5, maybe did back in 5.0.
How long are we going to play something else?

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Originally Posted by kajv95

You haven't been here for long.

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I've been around just more naive and ignorant towards these things since I'm not a DPS main. I was exclusively Whitemage only from HW to EW (And even now I still only gear and focus on my whitemage)

Granted in a PF I'd prefer having jobs that also had a raise just in case, because that helps in case of accidents. I prefer sustainability over damage as generally people just being alive longer will result in not seeing an enrage.

It's sad, though, people take so much stock in what a job can do in a vacuum. Most of the time, the reason you don't get over a hurdle or have trouble with the boss is that people die. (Which fair enough happens to all of us)

I've never really ran into situations where everyone did everything right but the damage was so low we couldn't make it past an enrage. It's always been because too many people died.
So I acknowledge the idea people would choose the most optimal DPS jobs because in MMOs players will always be like that... I just always thought FF14 was different since I never experienced it.
People I've played with have always been so welcoming and patient. Guess I've just been lucky.

I'll do a kindness to vouch for any machinist or job for now on ^v^

Edit: I should say I got zero Ultimate experience and in cases of those since they are the most difficult content we got in the game I could understand being discriminatory in that case... or obviously if you're running a standard party of 2 tanks, shield/pure healer, 2 ranged 2 melee - And all the ranged spots were taken. (Though I'm impatient so I wouldn't care who takes the dps spot lol)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They did. It turns all 4 quadrants purple and all symbols in the distance purple, so that there is no safe spot, then the bird flies to the purple note and kills the party.

I did hit enrage in Stormblood sometimes, but like you said it was easy to have loads of deaths due to gear. Even minimum item level after Stormblood, you could have a lot of deaths due to how expansions changes shifted potencies and things like that. As such, having a Red Mage was a good PUG strat to carry parties through.

Unreal however gives us no such advantages. It's scaled for our job potencies right now and it's synced almost to minimum item level (scaled for 690, synced to 695).

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I did see enrage during prog yes. Overgear wasn't that big of an issue for the simple reason that it was the week at release. Entry ilvl is set at -10 compared to crafted gear and most people didn't have this as it was early couple of days, so everyone was at MIL.

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Originally Posted by Nadda

Are people really blocking others because of the Jobs they play?

What kind of ass backwards logic is that?

There's no point in locking out other people based on their jobs.
Whatever fills the party can clear the fight.

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When a job is doing lower damage than others, this happens.
It's happened to me on paladin before

Blame idiots who don't think mch should be comparable to blm/sam despite being the exact same role

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Originally Posted by Valence

I did see enrage during prog yes. Overgear wasn't that big of an issue for the simple reason that it was the week at release. Entry ilvl is set at -10 compared to crafted gear and most people didn't have this as it was early couple of days, so everyone was at MIL.

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Yeah, I don't think overgearing is the issue here, we did the fight in previous tier gear as well back then and crafted gear was still expensive as hell in Stormblood.

The fact that unreal syncs your gear, has basically no requirements or "filter" and can be done as soon as you hit max level is probably the culprit here. As bad as it sounds, if everyone can get into Unreal you will inevitably have people who should not be there yet.