Why current job design is boring?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

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On paper this is a quick fix to current issue but..

Will people who enjoy straightforward healer like WHM will enjoy doing buffs?
Ok how to make them interesting without press X button to get 10% extra damage buff?

Support jobs should natural like how dancer and kinda bard is..

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Originally Posted by Bellybell

Problem with this is, it will be too big an overhaul which included fixing pt requirement through 2.0 until the latest expac.

And even if they try, the pt composite will probably be screw because too big a proportion of DPS classes pool.
- In 8 man pt, lessen the Tank or Healer to 1 will likely strained and stressed a good proportion of them to outcry
- Lessen the DPS to 3 would sound annoying due to too many DPS classes + too many DPS players
unless they make overhaul to 5/10 pt or something maybe

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There is a need to rethink of the current design and change things before people stop carrying and drop it all together

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

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Healer pDPS shouldn't be cut, in fact it should be increased.

But, for making them the dedicated support... Take away the partywide buffs from most DPS... BRD and DNC maybe can keep theirs, since they were intended to be partially support...But Brotherhood, Enbolden, Arcane Circle, Battle Litany, Starry Muse, Mug and Searing Light losing their boost to the raid... And then boosting Divination and Chain Stratagem to like 20% Damage boosts and also giving WHM and SGE something as well to buff damage... Could always give them different flavors of damage boosts, like Haste and Direct Hit chance... Like making WHM's Presence of Mind stronger and raidwide...

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

What are you on about? Who are these "most people"? AST got gutted because they rework it every expansion, as they clearly have no idea what they want to do with it. What Esunas are healers missing? The vast majority of debuffs can't even be removed anymore.

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AST ShB and EW have more skill expression than WHM.. because you have to understand card system and act fast after drawing random card AND manage people HP

It is overwhelming for most healers.. I have seen people complaining why RNG is there even in balance perspective
You can't design RNG job with scripted encounter design with no algorithm that will change how boss behave

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Healers already do a combined 12-15% of the raid DPS of which depending on comp close to 30% of that already comes from rDPS

cutting the healers pDPS in half and replacing that with some form of interesting buff rotation wouldn’t change the balance of healers at all and is a legit potential solution to how boring healers are

The only problem would be some form of solo compensation for such a massive nerf to pDPS on what’s already the lowest DPS role

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Couldn't they just make the buff effects significantly higher when used outside of a party to compensate for solo? It could make for an interesting experience where success in solo’ing content as a healer requires understanding and proper use of buffs on themselves to get through the tougher solo content.

Though that’s putting aside my point above how I genuinely believe any kind of active support additions to any job would result in insane player backlash unless it somehow deals direct damage to the enemy (which would be weird lol). Not to mention devs love to hide behind their ‘design straw men’ I.E ‘that’s too hard to balance between healers!!!’ (Make it a role skill) ‘Too stressful!’ (So is everything according to devs) ‘We don’t want to make healers have to think’ (but they design the game around making healers find ways to ignore heal casts, maximise dps but don’t bother telling new players lol) ‘they already have their super complex 120-cool-down attacks healers are super fun and interesting now’.

Like, i love supporting the party enough that I’d play ffxiv for like 24/7 365 and buy every Mogstation item ever created if the devs ever decided to make things like buff rotations and actual gcd buffing/debuffing a thing. But having begged pleaded screamed cried shook etc since ARR for more ways to support the party and getting the goddamn 120s meta in return, I simply have no hope left that support will ever be fun or interesting or even existent in ffxiv. You will take your 120-sec auto buffs and you will like them

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

AST ShB and EW have more skill expression than WHM.. because you have to understand card system and act fast after drawing random card AND manage people HP

It is overwhelming for most healers.. I have seen people complaining why RNG is there even in balance perspective
You can't design RNG job with scripted encounter design with no algorithm that will change how boss behave

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AST was complained about because it’s excessive APM bloat disguised as complexity, there was no complexity to EW AST it was just a test of horribly bad APM (especially on controller) that heavily punished failure

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Healer pDPS shouldn't be cut, in fact it should be increased.

But, for making them the dedicated support... Take away the partywide buffs from most DPS... BRD and DNC maybe can keep theirs, since they were intended to be partially support...But Brotherhood, Enbolden, Arcane Circle, Battle Litany, Starry Muse, Mug and Searing Light losing their boost to the raid... And then boosting Divination and Chain Stratagem to like 20% Damage boosts and also giving WHM and SGE something as well to buff damage... Could always give them different flavors of damage boosts, like Haste and Direct Hit chance... Like making WHM's Presence of Mind stronger and raidwide...

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If you buff rDPS then you can easily cut pDPS without much of a change, also buffing pDPS would make the healers way too strong on the damage front

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If you buff rDPS then you can easily cut pDPS without much of a change, also buffing pDPS would make the healers way too strong on the damage front

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I would say that pDPS wise, they should be at the level of tanks, as they are also a role where supposedly DPS isn't the primary purpose...

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I would say that pDPS wise, they should be at the level of tanks, as they are also a role where supposedly DPS isn't the primary purpose...

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If they were at the tanks pDPS wise then had strong raid buffs like they currently do then the healers would be doing physical ranged level damage

The tanks already do DNC/BRD pDPS numbers and we are also suggesting buffing healers rDPS contribution as well

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

AST was complained about because it’s excessive APM bloat disguised as complexity, there was no complexity to EW AST it was just a test of horribly bad APM (especially on controller) that heavily punished failure



If you buff rDPS then you can easily cut pDPS without much of a change, also buffing pDPS would make the healers way too strong on the damage front

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I agree APM is a problem.. but think of it as a casual player.. you have to manage:
1- damage buffs consistently ( currently 1 min or 2 min)
2- Reactive time mage fantasy.. you have to plan things out.
3- managing people HP and removing debuff

Sorry but this is too much for casual players without mentioning APM issue.

AST have to be gutted or I would rather suggest splitting the job to 2 version one support role and other is time mage healer

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If they were at the tanks pDPS wise then had strong raid buffs like they currently do then the healers would be doing physical ranged level damage

The tanks already do DNC/BRD pDPS numbers and we are also suggesting buffing healers rDPS contribution as well

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What I am suggesting is that DPS would still keep their buffs, but they would only affect themselves and not the party/raid. The party-wide effects to increase damage being given to Healers instead. Overall in terms of buffs, the DPS increases would stay relatively the same. Just from a different source and with less variance on the full potency depending on teams lineup. Maybe 20% is too much with 2 healers now that I think about it though...

And addition to that change, bring up healers pDPS to the same level as the completely unaffected Tanks.