Feedback: FIX YOUR NETCODE!

And when the particles start to stop and move randomly it becomes a fucking nightmare.

I have an avarage of 12ms and that happened three times in a row where the game was full responsive before getting that shit.

Side note, it seemed not to be an issue related to a spike on my connection since the ping was normal (12ms).
Ot last until the end of the dungeon where the effect were more pronounced during the first fight.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

This is not to say there isn't an issue with snapshotting in this game, cause there is. it just has nothing to do with skill clipping.

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Yep, my bad. I had never before heard hitbox "clipping" used at any meaning more than "hitbox overlapped with hurtbox, therefore counting as a hit". It doesn't strictly mean an 'unintuitive" or "unfair" hit taken, just... a hit. When complained of, that's usually from an AoE bearing player or unit moving across another player's hitbox, but at that point the specific term carries no specific use or value; you may as well just say "hit".

I'd had the thread opened for a while before responding and forgot to scroll back up first. My apologies.

Tangent:

That said, for a near-zero ping 2.5s GCD player to be unable to triple weave would mean that the average ICD of the skills used across that global is above 6.2 seconds. Non-movement animations with such high ICDs have been increasingly pruned from the game, pushed towards a more standard 0.5s (+ rtp), so it seems unlikely that a 2.5s player would necessarily need a 3rd party tool to do so. When playing on JP servers, JP friends regularly reported that they could triple-weave (and not merely mudras, which briefly had an especially low ICD) without drifting their GCD whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yep, my bad. I had never before heard hitbox "clipping" used at any meaning more than "hitbox overlapped with hurtbox, therefore counting as a hit". It doesn't strictly mean an 'unintuitive" or "unfair" hit taken, just... a hit. When complained of, that's usually from an AoE bearing player or unit moving across another player's hitbox, but at that point the specific term carries no specific use or value; you may as well just say "hit".

I'd had the thread opened for a while before responding and forgot to scroll back up first. My apologies.

Tangent:

That said, for a near-zero ping 2.5s GCD player to be unable to triple weave would mean that the average ICD of the skills used across that global is above 6.2 seconds. Non-movement animations with such high ICDs have been increasingly pruned from the game, pushed towards a more standard 0.5s (+ rtp), so it seems unlikely that a 2.5s player would necessarily need a 3rd party tool to do so. When playing on JP servers, JP friends regularly reported that they could triple-weave (and not merely mudras, which briefly had an especially low ICD) without drifting their GCD whatsoever.

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What I ment by my original statement, is not guarantee consistency/every weave can be triple weaved. which is generally what u want out of a rotation cause u don't wanna risk a drift causing u to miss a skill at a phase change.
In a live letter once upon a time it was stated that everyone under a certain amount of ping should have the same rotation by the games design. It' s been forever I do not remember which live letter. The intentions in the design are to limit it to double weaving. However if they make those restrictions too harsh, it is harder for players with bad ping to double weave. This does leave spare time for triple weaving to be possible on extremely good ping. However. Animation locks are also built into skill, with different skills having different animation locks and as per usual with 14 server tics also come into play. So not every skill combo has the ability to achieve a triple weave under perfect conditions. This could have changed with DT no clue I'm under the assumption it is the same. Even on a certain website that people use to compile fight information, there are very few true non clipping triple weaves recorded, even on the JP servers, because most of them still cause a barely noticeable clip. Anything with excessive non clipping triple weaving is flagged and reviewed. allegedly through testing with various "consistent" pings, it can only be guaranteed with 0 ping/3rd party tool that simulates it. The rest of it is luck and can not be done with 100% guarantee each and every time. So it is possible to do a triple weave successfully if you have amazingly good ping, but not enough to be able to guarantee it will happen each and every time without 3rd party tools to lock it. I think its somewhere around 20-40 to have a chance of a non clipping triple weave.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

They don't, though. There are differences, for instance, between how BDO, Aion, B&S, Tera, and the like handled these verifications and the uptime costs, errors, or other artifacts that might come from it.

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Re-read YoshiP's answer. He was comparing a single-player game where everything goes on your device vs an MMO where the information travels to the server and back and is checked.
Also, I like how you left out WoW, which has a much more reactive netcode despite being 10 years older than ARR. :)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Having to verify the feasibility of an action that the client requests is pretty much universally important

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Of course, it's important, no one is arguing about that. The problem is that SE's specific netcode introduces visible latency in the exchange between the client and the server, and therefore, when an attack lands, you may see yourself as outside of it and still inside of it server-side. And when you move, you are still standing still and casting for the server, hence slidecasting. That is a problem that is unique to FFXIV and most other MMOs handle it just fine.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Just like various multiplayer shooter games have their different ways of handling such things, so do MMOs.

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Shooters are a different beast, you cannot afford full server authority in an FPS because the generated latency would be too great. Which is why the client is given quite a bit of leeway, and that's how we get all the "wonderful" stuff that hackers and cheaters abuse.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Don't stone me on the accuracy about this, but when you see orbs flying around it is something like this

https://i.imgur.com/V8R8ech.jpeg

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This is actually correct. In any bullet hell mechanics in this game assume that the actual hitbox is one pace in front of it. This is because of a combination of ping and snapshot, but it is always consistently in front of the actual bullet itself. You can even assume you can run through bullets from sideways to dodge it.

I wonder if this netcode is also one of the reason why I keep mashing my E button to make sure my ability to go off. When a single press don't work and you wonder "Why did my tactician/bloodbath/second wind didn't go off?"

I feel like you gain alot more responsiveness on a controller over mouse and keyboard and it kinda shows.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Don't stone me on the accuracy about this, but when you see orbs flying around it is something like this

https://i.imgur.com/V8R8ech.jpeg

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I think it's more like this -


https://i.imgur.com/3wBmtJo.png

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

And when the particles start to stop and move randomly it becomes a fucking nightmare.

I have an avarage of 12ms and that happened three times in a row where the game was full responsive before getting that shit.

Side note, it seemed not to be an issue related to a spike on my connection since the ping was normal (12ms).
Ot last until the end of the dungeon where the effect were more pronounced during the first fight.

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Connection quality and latency are separate things. You can have low latency and lots of packet loss, or high latency and a very stable connection, or any combination of the two.

This has nothing to do with the game's 'netcode'. I recommend investigating your routing to the server, or the quality of your wireless environment if you're playing on something like wi-fi.

The problem with Strayborough 1 is not netcode. It's not difficulty. (I have never seen it wipe). It's just not fun. Nier was fun. M2N's been fun. Leonogg is just a bad fight. Having good netcode won't make it fun.

The code they need to fix is the clipping/ unresponsiveness of skills for people with high ping.