What is the warrior job fantasy?

Warrior should personally be about

1. Having a higher Hp pool to begin with, maybe a passive 10% more could work, this would allow warrior to be passively pretty strong.
2. Have less mitigation (enough to get through fights) but have sustain tools and hp extending to get you through things. even SHB where you could either Chose to sustain or mitigate was actually a fun design that wasn't busted, having the choice actually had some skill to it
3. Should be more selfish then it is right now, shake should give just the shield, the only sort of healing warrior should give is self, still a party member targetable mit should be needed just to keep it somewhat inline with other tanks
4. remove its AOE Healing in mobs, this is simply not fun for healers, tanks should work with healers in aoe pulls not do 100% of their job for them.
5. beast gauge should be reverted to the SHB one and include ur punch attack OCGD and gap closer.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

What are supposed to be Warrior's defining characteristics?
I see a lot of ''homogenisation bad'' talking points when it comes to tanks, so let's start with the developer's favourite tank; Warrior.

What are supposed to be Warrior's strengths and weaknesses? What sort of fights is it supposed to thrive in, and where should it fall short?

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Warriors are suppose to be like berserker fantasy, keep up berserk get hit get angry let out the beast to rip and tear things apart, that's the warriors fantasy suppose to be, however what we got is well a medic tank lets be honest here.

Warriors story is about rage and the inner beast controlling it and going berserk to take out your enemy that's what the fantasy is suppose to be. Honestly I don't think warriors armor should look as bulky as in its fantasy in my eyes you want to get cut and cut back sorta like Kenpachi in bleach

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

oh god no please do not break up tanks into magic and physical tanks again, it would be DRK/GNB only in EX and above because those bosses do 90% magic attacks on raidwides and TBs

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If there was a balance struck between physical and magical it wouldn't be an issue. Don't blame the abilities themselves when the devs are the ones making most of the endgame magic damage. Now that we can actually see what's magic and physical it would be easier to tell which is which as well.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

If there was a balance struck between physical and magical it wouldn't be an issue. Don't blame the abilities themselves when the devs are the ones making most of the endgame magic damage. Now that we can actually see what's magic and physical it would be easier to tell which is which as well.

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And then what happens when a troublesome tank mechanic is discovered to be Physical damage, so you need WAR/PLD as your tanks to deal with it, but it's mid-prog and you don't have them geared?
It creates a situation where there is potentially a wrong answer in composition for fights that you only find out after you've already locked into starting progging.
Either that or it would force every tank to farm/buy 2x weapons and use a standard BiS for their tank gear on the off chance they have to swap mid prog

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

And then what happens when a troublesome tank mechanic is discovered to be Physical damage, so you need WAR/PLD as your tanks to deal with it, but it's mid-prog and you don't have them geared?
It creates a situation where there is potentially a wrong answer in composition for fights that you only find out after you've already locked into starting progging.

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What would gear have to do with the physical/magic party mitigation split I mentioned? Did you miss when I mentioned that it would exclusively be party mit and not cooldowns like Vengeance?

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Originally Posted by Zairava

DRK and GNB could provide magic defense, WAR and PLD could provide physical defense, for example. (Though...really it makes more sense for PLD to provide magical defense). Ideally this would only apply to party utility since issues would be ran into if, say, Vengeance only reduced physical damage.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

What would gear have to do with the physical/magic party mitigation split I mentioned? Did you miss when I mentioned that it would exclusively be party mit and not cooldowns like Vengeance?

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It being a party mit doesn't change the situation. What happens when you find out you need more pysical mit from your tanks ?
you basically halt the prog of the group until the tank goes and farms up another weapon to play the other job.

This was something that happened in Abyssos when PLD and WAR were too weak to pass the DPS check on P8S, people had to leave prog and gear DRK/GNB to continue prog.
Just at a fundemental level these types of "incorrect comp checks" are something that the game and community doesn't work well with.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It being a party mit doesn't change the situation. What happens when you find out you need more pysical mit from your tanks ?
you basically halt the prog of the group until the tank goes and farms up another weapon to play the other job.

This was something that happened in Abyssos when PLD and WAR were too weak to pass the DPS check on P8S, people had to leave prog and gear DRK/GNB to continue prog.
Just at a fundemental level these types of "incorrect comp checks" are something that the game and community doesn't work well with.

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flat percentage mitigation has nothing to do with your weapon, though? That is dps not defense, unless you count the vitality boost on the tank and/or Tenacity. Unless the party mitigation scales off your hp it would basically be a non-factor

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Originally Posted by Zairava

flat percentage mitigation has nothing to do with your weapon, though? That is dps not defense, unless you count the vitality boost on the tank and/or Tenacity. Unless the party mitigation scales off your hp it would basically be a non-factor

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Why are you so hung up on the weapon? It's about having to gear 2x jobs and weapons aren't shared between tanks.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Why are you so hung up on the weapon? It's about having to gear 2x jobs and weapons aren't shared between tanks.

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I was just trying to stay consistent with what you mentioned, which was the weapon, before that it was the gear itself.

I understand why they went the "mit just mitigates both physical and magical" route, I just think it wasn't totally necessary for party mit. As long as all tanks can clear the content, what's the big deal? Potencies can be adjusted if they undertune the job

If they would finally increase the bloody tome cap it wouldn't be a huge issue to gear another tank or alt jobs (There's still farming the current ex if you really need to get said weapon for the other tank). Having comps exist isn't inherently a bad thing, but as you mentioned earlier this game's playerbase thinks of it as some form of kryptonite against the game's design. Which, to be fair, it currently is.

Broadly speaking, I think the Warrior fantasy is the idea that animalistic rage can be harnessed to directly lead to a positive outcome (in this case, specifically in combat). In short, it's Hulk.

Anger can indeed serve a positive purpose when used as motivation to work towards change; which is to say, if you're angry, that can be a reason to stop tolerating the status quo and instead start doing something about it. However, while anger can help us get moving instead of sitting on our thumbs, it is generally not a good quality to allow to surface while actually trying to solve the problem. Studies have provided evidence for what strategists and martial artists have known for thousands of years: when a person is angry their abilities to perceive and process information diminish. If you want to do your best, you don't want to be angry, you don't want to allow those baser desires to be a part of your process.

The fantasy of Warrior is that you can defy this common wisdom and be victorious. You just have to "tame" these feelings/instincts, and then rather than a hindrance they will be a source of power.