Can we merge the 90 roulette + expert roulette going forward?

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Stop pretending like dungeons in this game offer any sort of challenge.

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Stop pretending that everyone in the entire world is you and those who aren't are somehow lesser.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Expert roulettes give about 90 new tomestone, good money, and all the new stuff from the new dungeons - including some extra armor if you are in need of gearing up an alt, even though it's super weak
High-level roulette gives you less of everything I just said.
To compare: leveling roulette is more worthwhile because it does give you more rewards at cap level, but also is used for, well, levelling, whereas the high levelling roulette can't be used until you're max level.

It's not a matter of PoV: it's a matter of usefulness and overall rewards. So far, of the 2 roulettes, Expert delivers everything that high leveling roulette does but more. Why should I do older dungeons in a roulette that gives me fewer rewards?

If you're so adamant to keep the "variety" up (because 4 roulettes that give the same exact thing is variety apparently), then why not make the rewards equal for both?

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I guess you didn't read the "as above" part. Because people are needed for filling dungeons and some people don't want to do that part and just want their tomes.

I'm not adamant about any of it. I'm just giving the OP what they wanted. The why not.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Do you feel like you HAVE to do every roulette?

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Not really, but OP isn't exactly asking about every roulette, just one out of the nine available.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

It's kind of nice to have the option to do a dungeon I KNOW back and forth rather than thinking I might get "THAT" dungeon (there is always a "that" dungeon for everyone). And yeah "that" dungeon can BE the current expert sure.

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At most, a fully merged Lvl 90 + expert dungeon roulette would have 8 dungeons, patch 6.5 dungeon included. This is not a high amount of dungeons to remember, especially considering their low difficulty, and generally clear indicators on mechanics. Especially if players get the chance of having them pop up throughout the entire expansion.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

But.. why remove an option for some more rewards?

Don't like the expert dungeons? Don't do em.

you really don't have to do every roulette every day. Go Run a few crystal conflict matches. Do some hunts. Maxing out your current tomestones isn't hard to do if you don't do the expert roulette.

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Sure, there's always the option of just not running expert roulette. However, expert roulette is an easy method of getting a good chunk of capped tomestones, that can simply be ran at any moment. Something which is especially great on weeks where one doesn't feel like playing the game enough to wait for a hunt train, while still wanting to keep up with the tomestone cap.

Your argument against the OP's suggestion seems to boil down to "I prefer my performance that's fine-tuned to the current two dungeons", but I'm sure you would do just fine in a roulette that's extended to a total of 3-8 dungeons (depending on the expansion's current patch).

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Only advantage I see for the current system is that it's more likely for those who actually need the gear to get it when you get the new dungeon 50% of the time.

Still, it gets very boring so I like the suggestion from OP. I didn't mind as much when we got 2 dungeons per patch, so we had 4....but 2 is tedious. Especially if you get last-patches dungeon everyone vastly outgears 6 days a week (which I have...).

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Given that we already have only a chance at getting the dungeon potentially worth farming (if one doesn't have augmented gear from last tier already)... I'm not sure that increased chance is worth the added boredom from lower variety.

Personally, though, the biggest change I want to see is to have the ability to use matchmaking with/on minimum ilvl runs and to have reduced-ilvl (synced down) runs offer bonus chests based on the item levels reduced, with minimum ilvl runs also offering bonus currency. In that way, getting The Twinning, for instance, would have bonus chests that could drop whatever the latest dungeon drops and a minimum ilvl run would drop even more, including more currency to make up for the added time.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Your argument against the OP's suggestion seems to boil down to "I prefer my performance that's fine-tuned to the current two dungeons", but I'm sure you would do just fine in a roulette that's extended to a total of 3-8 dungeons (depending on the expansion's current patch).

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Personally I run all the roulettes if I'm on for whatever. So really yes, I do fine. The question is why separate them, and there are some reasons, some of which have nothing to do with efficiency of personal progress. I am not speaking of personal (my) preference really, I'm trying to look at overall why does the separation exist and what collapsing it would lose.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

They might as well. The rewards from level 90 roulette aren't exactly that amazing anyways.

But I feel like I remember people asking for it to be split for some reason and now we're going in the opposite direction.

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The roulette being split made sense when we got more than 1 Dungeon per patch, now that we only get 1 dungeon per patch now the split of the roulette's has become redundant.

Edit: Honestly I would love it if they separate old Alliance Raids (ARR, HW & SB) with at least 2 Expansions new Alliance Raids (ShB & EW), that way we won't always get bloody Circus Tower.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Personally I run all the roulettes if I'm on for whatever. So really yes, I do fine. The question is why separate them, and there are some reasons, some of which have nothing to do with efficiency of personal progress. I am not speaking of personal (my) preference really, I'm trying to look at overall why does the separation exist and what collapsing it would lose.

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So you basically have nothing against OP's suggestion, other than a vague "Well there's reasons for why they're separated!"?

One expert + one lvl 90 roulette will net a player 290-300 uncapped tomes, and 125-135 capped tomestones.
Two expert roulettes (one without daily bonus, obviously) will net a player 220 uncapped tomestones, and 140 capped tomestones.
With roughly the same amount of time spent, a player gains 70-80 uncapped tomestones, while missing out on 5-15 capped ones.

I'd be curious what those non-efficiency reasons are, because the current rewards for these two roulettes combined certainly don't look all that efficient when it comes to obtaining capped tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

So you basically have nothing against OP's suggestion, other than a vague "Well there's reasons for why they're separated!"?

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If you'd like to belittle and misrepresent my contribution then I guess? What do you want then? Only intense argument or agreement?

I'm not here to stand in peoples way, I'm here to actually think about what that proposal means and maybe think about why it hasn't been done yet.



O

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

I'd be curious what those non-efficiency reasons are, because the current rewards for these two roulettes combined certainly don't look all that efficient when it comes to obtaining capped tomestones.

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That's because all you're thinking about is personal benefit. The roulettes primarily exist to allow older content to be relevant and run. That is their purpose. As a reward, people are given tomestones and other rewards, with balance changes being had when something becomes exceedingly undesirable to run like the MSQ "omg this is taking so long but don't you DARE skip the cutscenes" runs. There are also those who just want to run other content or do something different or avoid certain dungeons or considerations as to which and what dungeons aren't being run and becoming roadblocks for people.


When all you look at is "what do I get out of this for me" it's easy to ask for your favorite things to be more efficient. But I'm also reminded of the quote:

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“Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game”

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There is a point where optimization needs to take a backseat to the longevity, engagement, and overall health of the game.


I'm not a dev. I don't know if these are actually the reasons it still exists, but it couldn't hurt to think about that aspect right?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

That's because all you're thinking about is personal benefit. The roulettes primarily exist to allow older content to be relevant and run. That is their purpose.

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That would actually be a further reason to combine the two, as then those catching up on MSQ dungeons prior to the current patch would have far more players sourcing their matchmaking as compared to just the separate and relatively unrewarding 90 Roulette...

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

If we're only getting 1 dungeon a patch it makes expert roulette alot more tedious after the first patch, since we get put down to 2 dungeons in the roulette. The dungeons aren't really that much harder or easier because of ILVL sync anyway, why seperate them and make expert roulette more boring?

curious what others might think about this

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Sure, I guess. Best case scenario the rewards from 90s roulette get included into expert roulette giving me more tomes for the same effort since I dont run 90s roulette anyway.

A wild thought perhaps: update the item level of all gear dropped from an expansion's endgame dungeons to match its highest currently available dungeon, so it doesn't matter which one you get dropped into.

On second thought, that might cause issues with players already owning dungeon gear getting an instant raise, but they'd still have to collect other types of gear that are stronger.