Simple changes that would tremendously help PvP

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Originally Posted by Valence

I don't especially feel that XIV pvp has been dumbed down since the skill ceiling is still there. The skill floor however, has been made extremely accessible yeah (is it a bad thing?).

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Oh trust me, it got dumb down a lot.
If you took away these easy access mechanics, most of current Ninja and Samurai don’t even know how to execute a kill

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Originally Posted by Garten

For DR i mean Damage Reduction, not Diminishing Returns.

And random in the sense that i think they went overboard with the damage reduction..

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You probably need to play Rival Wing first before claiming damage reduction is a bad thing
In this mode, there is no damage reduction and each job can potentially one shot other job when execute correctly
SAM and Ninja is just laughing stock in Rival Wing because any other job can potentially one shot them and their current gimmick is useless
How fun is it for you when ever job potentially looks like a Samurai to one shot you

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

- NO oneshot gimmicks. It’s bad in any game with PvP, kills counter-play and feels cheap.

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Team fortress 2:
- Kritzkrieg (one of the most balanced tools in the game, designed to cause a lot of instakills)
- Sticky bombs (traps are designed for oneshot kills)
- Backstabs (forces you to watch surroundings, if not, you can die randomly - can also be used to punish bad teleporter placement)
- Sniper headshots (used even as a hardcounter for many things, but at the same time hard to counter on its own, damage is just limited by a timer - this is the most disruptive constant existing 1shot mechanic)
- Random crits. While RNG, the actual RNG is based on performance, perform well and you get significantly more crits (critrate increases by 500%) - these days disabled because this RNG didnt feel balanced.
- Point blank attacks (mostly scout and heavy), which can do significant damage values and effectively instakill (heavy with 500 dps).
- Teleporter kills (its a gimmick, but punishes a major engineer mistake as you should never stand on your own teleport)
- Map hazards in combination with knockback (positioning yourself is important)

Instakills arent bad on their own. They are bad when they rely on certain things:
- RNG (you dont want balance to be decided by lotteries)
- Lag (lag makes information harder to read, and responses often impossible)
- Stunlocks (a slow or fast death doesnt matter, the point you were stunned is when you are going to die - even if in theory there is counter play, it effectively isnt there)
- Unbalanced stats (either by gear or pay2win. in this case its no longer about skill)

And let ff be a game with such horrible lag issues, that anything response based is bad.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Oh trust me, it got dumb down a lot.
If you took away these easy access mechanics, most of current Ninja and Samurai don’t even know how to execute a kill

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That's not being dumbed down. That's being made more accessible. If it had truly been dumbed down, there would be no skill expression left, but the ceiling is still there.

If you're mad about the more casual players not knowing how to play a class well enough but havign the minimum tools to do whatever they enjoy doing, that's just gatekeeping. If you're mad about the most stupid LBs in the game, that's another story, and has very little to do with the whole system being "dumbed down".

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Originally Posted by Valence

That's not being dumbed down. That's being made more accessible. If it had truly been dumbed down, there would be no skill expression left, but the ceiling is still there.

If you're mad about the more casual players not knowing how to play a class well enough but havign the minimum tools to do whatever they enjoy doing, that's just gatekeeping. If you're mad about the most stupid LBs in the game, that's another story, and has very little to do with the whole system being "dumbed down".

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Do I looks like I am mad when I pretty much told OP that his idea of changes is not practical?
People nowadays is sure weird.
There is no middle ground, it is either you are with us or against us and we will try to CANCEL you if you are against us.
Be mature please, I am narrating a fact doesn't mean I am mad.
My tone this expansion has always has been inexperience/new players need these new gimmicks and stunlock to compete with veterans
Yet, the fact is fact, it hurts when it has no sugar-coating

Controls went down from 8 buttons to excute at beginning, 5 buttons to execute between Stormblood and Shadowbringer and current one shot gimmick.
This has nothing to do with gatekeeping, ok?
Same as PvE, system is there, but good players can clear Ultimate and normal players can't.
If SE dears to dumb down the PvE control, you go tell those angry mob with your sugar coating idea

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You probably need to play Rival Wing first before claiming damage reduction is a bad thing
In this mode, there is no damage reduction and each job can potentially one shot other job when execute correctly
SAM and Ninja is just laughing stock in Rival Wing because any other job can potentially one shot them and their current gimmick is useless
How fun is it for you when ever job potentially looks like a Samurai to one shot you

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And now you have premades of darks (not fuor, you need just two) that are unkillable with pugs... And tbh, even me, that in frontline i play ninja, if i am focused (in the sense that i dont make stupid mistakes) trough all the match i'll finish with top kills and 0 deaths

ALWAYS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You probably need to play Rival Wing first before claiming damage reduction is a bad thing
In this mode, there is no damage reduction and each job can potentially one shot other job when execute correctly
SAM and Ninja is just laughing stock in Rival Wing because any other job can potentially one shot them and their current gimmick is useless
How fun is it for you when ever job potentially looks like a Samurai to one shot you

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https://i.imgur.com/M7k8ZlG.png

Have YOU played Rival Wings ?

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Originally Posted by Garten

And now you have premades of darks (not fuor, you need just two) that are unkillable with pugs... And tbh, even me, that in frontline i play ninja, if i am focused (in the sense that i dont make stupid mistakes) trough all the match i'll finish with top kills and 0 deaths

ALWAYS

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My apology, I dont understand your writing so I didnt get your point, can you rephrase it?
I don't know about others, I personaly don't attack Ninja or put focus macro on Ninja because their weakness: they donk't effective damamge without LB gimmick.
Is this what you are trying to say?

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

https://i.imgur.com/M7k8ZlG.png

Have YOU played Rival Wings ?

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Not as much as Frontline, currently about 3,000 matches and most of them is old one.
This is even worst then and show how important DR is.
Last week I am in Rival Wing I can zero every job from 100% to 0% as Monk that shouldn't be happening on Frontline

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

I’ve been playing a ton of CC and been farming Onsal Hakair (Steppes Frontline) for a mount.

It surprises me that after the first efforts to improve PvP participation, few real hotfixes were made. Here’s a few things that should be tweaked based on my experience :

- NO oneshot gimmicks. It’s bad in any game with PvP, kills counter-play and feels cheap. This isn’t PvE (and you don’t even have that in PvE, so I’m wondering where the idea came from).

- Samurai block + oneshot LB is extremely lame as many threads already explained. Make the block have instead a riposte effect, where the attackers get their damage reflected. Longer cooldown, like 1 min. Less cheap and still useful.

- MCH saw ability should not have a oneshot chance.

- Probably a few other oneshot abilities/gimmicks I’ve missed. You guys tell me. They should not exist at any rate.

- Being under the effects of Cover (Paladin ability) should prevent you from trying to capture a point.

- Some jobs feel horribly useless in PvP, dancer being one of them and I don’t play one. Only their LB is decent because it cannot be removed. Which leads me to my next point :

- Purify should purge every crowd control, no exception, no favorites : White Mage pig spell, Dancer LB and many others.

- Purify should actually do what it does and prevent other crowd control effects from affecting you for a few seconds. Still doesn’t work after 3 seasons.

- Make crowd control effects have a common diminishing return. This can be felt in CC but also in Frontline where you are literally unable to play your character for 20s and more. Combine that with Purify not doing what’s its supposed to do or crowd control effects that can’t be removed and you leave players with a sour taste in their mouth. I mostly play tank and watching just a few players disabling your character for 20s while you are a sitting duck is not a good feeling. It’s worse for healers and dps who die much quicker.

With a common diminishing return, you’d also fix the Dork Knight crowd control stacking in Frontlines.

- Sprint should not be permanent or an on/off ability. Absolute trash when playing melee and running after a target. Make it have a 1min cooldown with a 10-15s duration, without being removed while using skills. Just as in PvE
That way, people will learn how to position themselves and when to use it properly instead of a “oh crap” button.

The sprint combined with Ninja escape ability is terrible and makes it extremely hard to catch on unless you have as above a few players spamming crowd controls.


Frontline is already lame as it is, a few fixes like the ones above would make Frontlines less crappy to play, same for CC.

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honestly they should just bring back pre-6.1 pvp.