Is There a Way to Make Eureka [b]Not[/b] Suck?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Not saying you in particular were, but I can understand how you'd feel this way since I didn't specify.

Ultimately, I agree, and I wish those areas were a bit more fleshed out than just glorified FATE areas. We have other systems here, for example. Treasure maps could have been an interesting addition, or taking a cue from FF12's sidequests which had you have to figure some stuff out to progress.

But unfortunately, FF11 clones was what we got, and while Bozja is for sure an improvement on it, it feels more like an area to show people that "see? We learned. Eureka CAN work". Which, great job, but you still didn't make it any more engaging than just a glorified FATE hunt.

I was mostly responding to that one user's post, not you directly. The issue with what I wrote in that context comes in the need for rewards, and usually people want rewards that are either meaningful or give them progression. And unfortunately as we are now, we can't have much that adds to progression, or you risk invalidating so much of the areas as they are. And "meaningful" rewards are a bit hard to accomodate, as often once you get them they become less meaningful and the area returns to being unengaging.

However, there are other factors that they could do. For example.



This is a good idea.

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I'm not sure how Bozja ended up working when Eureka failed. It seemed to go so fast and before I knew it I was already in Zadnor. I guess maybe because you already had all your skills available and not have to start from level 1 like Eureka.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They could remove or at least limit the amount of XP or levels lost on death. I get it's supposed to be a throw back to old mmos but with it underpopulated and you having to solo most of it, making any single mistake is extremely punishing in terms of moving you back in progress.

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That defeat the whole purpose of the zone, hell, just go in as a warrior and it become near impossible to die.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

That defeat the whole purpose of the zone, hell, just go in as a warrior and it become near impossible to die.

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How does it defeat the purpose of the content? Is it supposed to be this unfun?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

How does it defeat the purpose of the content? Is it supposed to be this unfun?

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Yes, because that's how the real badass hardcore gamers did it back in the day, and not the modern weak pansy gammons.
/s

eureka leveling was kind of whatever

BA with a dedicated group like CA is a lot of fucking fun

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Originally Posted by Joven

I am 8 cards away from getting the Triple Triad mount and they're all gated behind Eureka. I tried, I really did, but it's just so soul sucking to run. I only made it to level 16 before calling it quits. I ran all of Bozja no problem, even had some fun doing it, but Eureka is just utterly devoid of anything remotely enjoyable.

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I found it extremely enjoyable, so it just depends on the person. You either love it or you hate it.

The problem with Bozja was being too quick because of listening to people who wanted Eureka to be that fast.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Eureka is just utterly devoid of anything remotely enjoyable.

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That's entirely subjective. I personally love Eureka. Bozja is completely bland in every aspect, but it's designed to be more efficient so it doesn't feel bad.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I'm not sure how Bozja ended up working when Eureka failed. It seemed to go so fast and before I knew it I was already in Zadnor. I guess maybe because you already had all your skills available and not have to start from level 1 like Eureka.

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Anemos had a lot of people in the instance at the start, which due to how the rendering order in this game is coded, made it so people couldn't get to FATEs on time and get proper participation.
Pagos was derided for its chokepoints, confusing map and the introduction of the high level one-shot sleeping dragons.
Pyros introduced Logos Actions and a much more forgiving map, but was still derided for being confusing and having stunted progression. That, and by that point people would just AFK at base and wait for someone to spawn the FATEs. At least more so than usual.
The loss of levels and the amount of damage you'd take from something larger than you made solo-levelling feel really slow and progression was halted by that danger. And getting into a party was sometimes an issue because party experience gains would be cut down if people were too low level.
And Anemos didn't have the Challenge Log at the start, so right off the bat it was a hell of a grind. The Light Farm didn't earn any favours either, with people feeling like their grinds were doubled down on. And that's not even getting to the ludicrous efforts required to spawn some of those FATEs, especially the requirements for the rare or high-level stuff, especially if the instance was dead or people didn't coordinate.

Bozja came in with much simpler maps, no real chokepoints and much of what was later added to Eureka to make the job easier. Your level doesn't really matter in Bozja, as the Rank is just there for story progression and little else. Plus, you can't de-rank anyway. And there isn't too much coordination required; if your intended CE doesn't spawn, just farm a bit of mobs and wait because it'll pop back up later like clockwork provided enough mobs got killed for it to spawn.
So it was at least initially received as an overall improvement over Eureka's design. But of course, it was still pretty barebones.

So yeah, it went by so fast because it was designed to. You do still have to get Lost Actions and rank up, but that isn't too hard to get. The solo experience, while dangerous, was a lot more lenient in comparison. There was very little actually blocking you, whereas in Eureka there was quite a lot making it a slog.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

That's entirely subjective. I personally love Eureka. Bozja is completely bland in every aspect, but it's designed to be more efficient so it doesn't feel bad.

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What he said. Basically Bozja's more straightforward and efficient than Eureka. But just because the map was improved upon, it doesn't mean that there were any additions, thus making it bland for a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

How does it defeat the purpose of the content? Is it supposed to be this unfun?

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The purpose is to mimic older mmorpg leveling experience, where Xp loss is a thing and mobs are dangerous enough that you want to be careful about how many you fight at once. Those added difficulty is what make it fun for people who enjoy that kind of content.

It like complaining you need to go back to floor 1 when you fail a PoTD Necromancer run, it part of the challenge. You don't like it, then go play the rest of the game. Let the people enjoy the 3-4 small things that cater to them

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Treasure maps could have been an interesting addition

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We got bunny fates which give you a way to find treasure.

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taking a cue from FF12's sidequests which had you have to figure some stuff out to progress.

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You sort of do for the quests because they don't just mark where to go on the map. You have to go and find it based on the discussion.

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The issue with what I wrote in that context comes in the need for rewards, and usually people want rewards that are either meaningful or give them progression.

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You have all the relic weapons and BA armor upgrades to get. There are some extremely rare drops including the items to add two slots to the magia board that keep people going back to Eureka for years unless they are like me and buy them off the market board. There is also the Cassie Earring and what used to be the Speed Belt (now Blitzring) that people still farm to this day. In a way there is a constant meaningful progression in having to replenish your logograms and your level if you die without a rez.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Pagos was derided for its chokepoints, confusing map and the introduction of the high level one-shot sleeping dragons.

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The map with lots of high and low terrain to explore and dragons to survive were the most fun parts of all. The people who didn't like it just don't like it being difficult and want it to be braindead. They come home after a long day and just want to turn their brain off for an hour like they can in bozja.