Dev Team Feedback - SCH

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

no one said they were needed, especially with all the other skills healers have to heal.
you do realize that healers want more excuses to use their skills right? which was not being heard and designed in the game encounter design and were pretty much given more redundant tools they will use little to no times? so basically they were ignored and given a skill cause you know that role exist it seems

* with what seems no thought was put into choosing those level 90 skills btw

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I'll reserve judgement until I see endgame content in EW.

Also it seems to me that at least half of the healer vets want more DPS buttons instead of crazy random raid damages. You can raise the skill ceiling without killing the skill floor.

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Originally Posted by BooPoo

I'll reserve judgement until I see endgame content in EW.

Also it seems to me that at least half of the healer vets want more DPS buttons instead of crazy random raid damages. You can raise the skill ceiling without killing the skill floor.

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To be fair, I feel like it's more people want engagement in the job in both healing and DPS aspects, not just the healing aspect of it. While high-end content is fun to heal, people do want to do more than just press two or three buttons to do damage. Even then, mechanics within a job need to be rewarding in some way to the player, which is already shown from WHM as an example with Blood Lily. SGE is also a good example since you get rewarded for shields being broken with Eukrasian Diagnosis with an Instant Cast AoE. There are even different ways to engage the player in a job, specifically AST. Job mechanics that cycle in short spans of time keep them busy and not always pressing Malefic or what have you. I think that's what we're trying to look for in SCH: That engagement that isn't just sit on a timer of 60s Aetherflow along with the Fairy Lockouts that happen when Seraph is brought out or Dissipation used.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This is extremely noticeable in 24 man content when your group's tank isn't the main tank.

You'll sit on 100 fairy gauge with literally nothing to spend it on except the odd fey blessing for raidwides because you can't apply Fey Union to people not in your party..

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Tbf, this seems a broad issue that should be addressed regardless.

I'd far rather have to go through the effort of reworking AoE effects, for instance, to hit the first 8 applicable targets by order of proximity (perhaps ignoring those who'd be significantly overhealed) than continue to leave so many skills in limbo unless we're the main tank's party. Change all skills currently limited to party members to allies instead.

Before knowing that sage was gonna happen I hated the fairy and just wanted it removed from the kit. Now that sage is announced and we've seen some footage of it, ive changed my opinion. Something that might be nice is the fairy just eventually becomes seraph not a temp summon but just seraph the whole time(since functionally all the fairies are the same). Obviously it would have to basically just be seraph in appearance maybe it happens at a point where fairy abilities get a potency buff to make more sense, but I think it would be nice as just having the fairy out and not having to swap them with summon seraph would likely help if not remove ghosting.

Maybe as a fairy gauge spender you could buff the now permanent seraph to preform the shield heals it currently does. As well, id like to see dissipation changed to something else as it still is the only punishing healer self buff that im aware of. Aside from the aetherflow it gives we now have better tools available to scholar to increase gcd heal potency so now seems as good a time as any to finally address this.

I think scholar should still be a "pet" job as I know there are many who love that type of job and with summoner changes it is losing alot of that identity, but, it should not have to hold on to antiquated concepts when they can be changed and should be.

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Originally Posted by rewd

That's the case for several skills in the game and especially for all the healer level 90 abilities.

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Capstones should be the most exciting moves you have. You should WANT to push them. Not making them that way is a failure of the design team.

Not be: "Eh, it'd be nice if I had the chance to use this thing".

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Capstones should be the most exciting moves you have. You should WANT to push them. Not making them that way is a failure of the design team.

Not be: "Eh, it'd be nice if I had the chance to use this thing".

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"Capstones should be the most exciting moves you have" it's something players decided to come up with, as it is not really reflected in the game. Sleeve Draw, Carve and Spit, Decimate, Blasting Zone, Royal Authority, Tetragrammaton, Plenary Indulgence, Sacred Soil, Dissipation, Aetherpact, Dragon Kick, Tornado Kick, Six-Sided Star, Dragonfire Dive, Assassinate, Meditate, Battle Voice, Sidewinder, Refulgent Arrow, Apex Arrow, Ricochet, Heated Slug Shot, Flamethrower, Improvisation are all capstones skills that don't fit that definition. Mind you, I excluded other skills that don't fit that definition either only because it would have been superfluous at this point.

If capstones skills that are the most exciting moves you have turn out to be the exception and not the rule, maybe we should reconsider the importance we give to those skills.

That being said, the point of the discussion is that you are attributing a situational utility to a skill that is universally useful and worth pressing, especially compared to Lilybell and Macrocosmos.

I do have some feedback regarding SCH, granted I also raised it back in 2019 during ShB's media tour, so it should still be relevant here.

1. Please allow back the usage of Aetherflow out of combat.

It kinda feels awful in all kinds of contents, but it's especially true during dungeons. Not being able to prepare Aetherflow stacks during mob packs because you're considered "out of combat" feels bad to play. I understand there were some complains about waiting a minute between pulls in savage, but considering DNC and AST still have to wait some time to get ready, I feel this was unnecessary. A simple fix for this would be giving us the stacks every time you enter an instance, or wipe. That way, you wouldn't have to restrict it out of combat, and there wouldn't be any wait associated to it at the start.

2. Please allow us to use the pet bar to do fairy actions again.

The pet management is what really brought me to the job, and the main reason why I did stick to the game as hard as I did back in HW. Being able to do two things at once was what defined SCH for me, and where I got engaged as a healer the most.

To put it simply, fairy ghosting has been a thing since the job ever came out back in 2.0. While it wasn't ever perfect, the actions weren't getting on CD until they were actually used.
With Shadowbringers, came the worst that could have happened regarding it : Tying the fairy actions to a consumable oGCD. Now, you can't even spam the button in order to make it work. If Eos doesn't want to do it, she will not do it and you have no way of recourse. It's quite concerning not being able to rely confidently on a healing ability, on a healer job. And unfortunately, Seraph is the same, with the added lag during summoning.

I would also like to have access to manual Embraces as well. SGE basically has the Embrace macros built-in with no lag with Kardia. If this job is able to do that, I would like being able to target Embraces once again. Due to how erratic the pet AI is, Buffing Embrace won't amount to much if you can't control any of it by yourself. Overall, we already had to fight with the job system pre-shb with the lag and ghosting. SHB removed our means to fight these issues consistently. From that, I feel like our fairies have become an uncontrollable burden rather a characteristic of the job, which now eats oGCDs when you were able to dualtask them.

I don't think I would've been too upset about the lack of overall DPS actions if the main feature of the job didn't just disappear like that. I will probably still miss Bane and Eye for and Eye forever, but I guess it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Doragan

I do have some feedback regarding SCH, granted I also raised it back in 2019 during ShB's media tour, so it should still be relevant here.

1. Please allow back the usage of Aetherflow out of combat.

It kinda feels awful in all kinds of contents, but it's especially true during dungeons. Not being able to prepare Aetherflow stacks during mob packs because you're considered "out of combat" feels bad to play. I understand there were some complains about waiting a minute between pulls in savage, but considering DNC and AST still have to wait some time to get ready, I feel this was unnecessary. A simple fix for this would be giving us the stacks every time you enter an instance, or wipe. That way, you wouldn't have to restrict it out of combat, and there wouldn't be any wait associated to it at the start.

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While the "feels bad" moments are certainly there, I have to wonder if perfect downtime generation and use of a core tool is a strength (currently unique to AST, though originally unique to SCH over WHM) SCH actually needs.

Moreover, there's a hefty difference between DNC and AST's wait times and the full minute SCH would, more strongly, oblige.

It would also, though perhaps for the better, oblige a similar change to the likes of Infuriate, Ikishouten, and so forth.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

My Thoughts on SCH:

SCH was my first job that I played almost exclusively during ARR, and I really loved the way it played. I liked being a more DPS-focused healer. I liked having a faerie companion. I liked that I had weaknesses to overcome with my lack of effective AoE Healing. I liked needing to use my barrier spells more frequently.

Over the years, I feel like SCH has never really felt like it was getting this new level of power. As mentioned above, each capstone ability has fought with the SCH's own playstyle. Dissipation and Fey Union don't feel like cohesive actions. They feel clunky and awkward to use despite their benefits. When we were in Stormblood, after some of the weaker areas of SCH's gameplay were ironed out, I felt like it was still ultimately a great job.

I will never understand why it was gutted the way it was in Shadowbringers. So much of its identity was torn out of it, and we never got anything of significant value to take its place. Why was Miasma removed? Why was Bane removed? Why was Shadowflare removed? Why were the faeries homogenized? Why was Galvanize spit into Catalyze? Why was Eye for an Eye removed?

I don't understand how SCH players were supposed to benefit from in all those removals. Was there even a single person asking for those changes?

Honestly, I feel like a lot of SCH just feels old and disjointed now. Aetherflow is fine, but we've got a healer with a large quantity of OGCDs and a faerie that give them the most amount of DPS uptime, yet they have nothing to do during that uptime. The faeries never really felt equal in the past, but it honestly feels worse having them be the same. The fey gauge is basically a screen decoration and nothing else. It's also possibly the only job to never have almost nothing that seems visually impressive.

EW hasn't even started yet, so I get that maybe it's too early to really complain. I just hope it gets overhauled like Summoner and Monk come 7.0. It really needs to be rebuilt and have new life breathed into it.

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The original SCH was amazing. I miss it too.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

To be fair, I feel like it's more people want engagement in the job in both healing and DPS aspects, not just the healing aspect of it. While high-end content is fun to heal, people do want to do more than just press two or three buttons to do damage. Even then, mechanics within a job need to be rewarding in some way to the player, which is already shown from WHM as an example with Blood Lily. SGE is also a good example since you get rewarded for shields being broken with Eukrasian Diagnosis with an Instant Cast AoE. There are even different ways to engage the player in a job, specifically AST. Job mechanics that cycle in short spans of time keep them busy and not always pressing Malefic or what have you. I think that's what we're trying to look for in SCH: That engagement that isn't just sit on a timer of 60s Aetherflow along with the Fairy Lockouts that happen when Seraph is brought out or Dissipation used.

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Yeah. And it's solvable by giving healers semi DPS rotations like tanks, and simultaneously lifting healing requirements in ultimate contents so that dedicated vets have a place to struggle to keep teammates alive.