Let's Talk: EN players in JP data centre

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Originally Posted by Juun

Stuffs

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I see and read these things but it is not what I experience and am uncertain why.

Though it was not always this bad, twas much of the better when I first joined. I steadily convinced family members and friends to try playing FF14 and we are now a small group of almost twenty.

Many of this group have had similar bad experiences in sequence. I do not think I have ever once seen alliance B tank exclusively.

Can we phase into your reality please? I feel like we are playing a different game..

One of the last experiences friends had was being killed out of their cutscene in Toto because the tank pulled. No hello, no aoe as tank just silence then gg at the end.

I have not done the hunt train since but one of my first experiences with it involved a sassy lala telling everyone "you have to catch the football" because waiting two minutes was too long. Then something about "fake news". The two I joined were all early pulls and you had to hope you got there before the mob was dead. Maybe I need to join more? I do not exactly wish to.

What time are you going through this stuff at? I have not seen any of this in Primal in a long long time.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

To be fair there are differences. When i played for a year on NA it was a little culture shock for me. Like in Eureka players pulled Notorious Monsters on sight, not waiting a single second for all the players on the way. That's something you would be flamed for on EU. Also look at the NA hub chat. It's full of shout chat trolls mostly. EU is really really quiet same as JP.

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idk what dc you were on, but I was in Eureka for hours, every day and nearly always had time to get to a NM before it was pulled. I could count the times I couldn't make it on one hand, even if I had to run all the way. Pulling early was considered a jerk thing to do here too.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Wait, wait.. wait have I entered the scary door again? Have I phased into other reality?

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I don't know what kind of experience you've been having but 90% of that video it's the same in Aether and Chaos DCs (the 2 where I most played).

People always wait for hunt trains, in fact Aether even have daily cross-world hunting trains and cross-world linkshells for hunting, where everyone stands at the first zone for like 10-15 minutes before the train starts. I mean... you said you can count on single hand the number of times someone actually waited but then again you said "This was my second and last hunt train" later on, it doesnt look like you had enough experience with hunt trains in NA.

Sometimes there ARE some players who actually dont wait players viewing cutscenes, I agree, but they will always get called on for doing such a thing, and that's because the default for us its to always wait players to finish watching cutscenes, it doesnt matter if you're doing Sastasha or The Tower at Paradigm's Breach, more than 50% of the time someone will use the alliance chat to say that they have players watching cutscenes and then everyone wait for them (in light parties we wait without a word because we need everyone to complete).

You will not be greeted every time you do a duty, if you take that as offensive or rude I am not here to change your view on that. In my personal experience tho, 7 out of 10 times there is always a "hello" and "gg" message at the start and end of a duty. Personally I don't mind if they greet me or not, I've already forgot the name of everyone who greeted and didnt greet me yesterday for instance. Just remember that not everyone plays with PC (keyboard) and there are players of every age and social behaviours in game.

A few exceptions that I agree, alliance B being MT it is not a usual rule, and I believe that in World of Darkness you're having that problem because it is always full of sprouts and players who do not know how to tank properly (especially now with the new wave of players), spinning the boss is not a behaviour we do for fun.

Now to mention the video:

The 3 wipes = vote dismiss, this one will get you looked down because if you vote dismiss because of only 3 wipes you're pretty much losing everyone's time in there, there is no "holding players" in the duty, everyone is there out of their free will and wanting to complete the duty. I can understand party leaders in JP trying to be polite with this but for us this would just look like you're an impatient player or being salty.

I can see why JP do not like /yell and /shout and I find it weird, but I respect nonetheless.

I'm not here picking on you, I'm just in shock that your experience in NA is SO different from the one I have and I'm sure I'm not the only one here.

I'm on Aether and it's the same as Nimura. I was just in Breach the other day and we got to the last boss and multiple people were like "cutscenes" "two in cutscenes" etc. Ironically the folks in their group were then like "Or they'll skip them lol" and we went ahead and proceeded. But there was no pressure to skip and since roulette curses me with that raid a lot lately, I can attest that we do try to wait. There was another instance in Bunker not too long back where this guy was just being an absolute turd about people watching cutscenes. Calling them weebs and saying they could watch at the inn and why should we wait for people who couldn't bother to do it before this point. He both got told off by half the raid in alliance chat and nobody would raise him when he died. Yeah, he got a carry on that fight, but the rest of the raid still enjoyed watching him floor tank and whine about it.

I see hunt trains wait all the time when I'm out gathering. We also waited all the time in Eureka. I remember the Cheer emotes were quite active when we were waiting for people to assemble. Do we have the jerk early pullers? Yes. Every server has bad eggs. But they usually get told off by more than one person for doing it.

Nimura is right that you won't be greeted every time. Like Nimura said, some may not have a keyboard. Some greet with an auto command and I have no issue with that. My default is "\o". Sometimes there isn't a greeting but we chat in other areas, too. Or just the "tyfp" "gg" at the end. There is usually at least that.

B being main tank was something I never heard of until people started talking about JP. Especially in WoD, it's either A or C since B means B's healers can't go into the belly on Cerberus since they have to babysit the tank. But generally it's kind of whoever wants the job and outside of a rare exception, all the tanks stay near each other so they can take over quickly if one goes down. It's only when someone wants to troll by starting a Provoke war from the other side that they spin the boss or a newbie that people try to help guide.

I've seen people try to throw up the vote dismiss after one wipe in PF groups, lol. Or even in alliance raids sometimes. Generally everyone is like "WTF" and "Leave if you're that impatient". Far more often after the one or two impatient ones have left, I see everyone else stubbornly staying like "We WILL pass this, or die trying". Even Aether does have a point where we'll toss in the towel and a vote dismiss goes through, but we definitely gave it our all before that. I do think that is a difference, though, because it is in our culture to not think as well of someone who gives up what we consider too easily. I *have* seen DF groups that want to keep going that will kick someone at their request who doesn't, though, so they don't get a penalty, but that's usually after a few tries.

I think it's fine if JP doesn't like shout or yell, but honestly it would be kind of boring and rather cold feeling without it on NA. But I come from old school MMOs where shout was our primary communication. And I don't really mind the content. There are people who advertise their clubs or FCs. Some of those are quite creative. There are actual conversations about things, or just general silliness as we wait for roulette. And what I like the most (at least on my server) is that if someone asks a question they get tons of people willing to give them the answer. Yeah, we get the occasional set of folks being snippy, but even then people tell them to take it to /tell. It's very rare we don't police ourselves in areas with high shout activity. When I go somewhere and see a lot of shout chat, it feels warm and alive and active for me.

Also, Elemental is pretty international. Of the three JP DCs, it's probably the "least Japanese".

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Wait, wait.. wait have I entered the scary door again? Have I phased into other reality?

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How often do you play on NA?

I think some people took me saying Alliance B tanking is common knowledge as saying that we do that in NA. We don't, but we've known that JP do, since forever. In NA, it's usually a matter of, "Who wants to MT the most?" Some people who play tank here want to be the MT no matter what, so they fight for agro. Another very common thing to see though, is that no tank actually wants to MT. They just want a job that's easy to not die on, so they came tank. There's a ton of times in NA where tanks actively refuse to turn on their stance, and someone has to be goaded/forced into tanking. NAs are very tank reluctant, outside of tank mains, and NA tank mains are overzealous/competitive.
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People don't wait for normal fates, that's true. In Eureka though, they do. Especially nowadays that it's old and there's less people. It's generally a 2 minute from pop pull time, sometimes more if someone communicates that they're in a bad spot but on the way asap. It was a little different when it first came out, as many NAs like to leech, so poppers felt entitled to kill the NMs they'd spawned. But anytime an actual NM Train was organized, people would just follow the train leader's commands.

Hunts for NA have always had organization and wait times. There are selfish NA who solo pull or early pull though, purposefully to troll. However, load times for older PC rigs and PS4s without Solid State Drives sometimes cannot load into zones upon teleport, due to congestion. Sometimes loading in takes so long for older machines that making the pull time is impossible without inconveniencing hundreds of people. I gave up hunts when I was still on PS4 due to that.

If Saphyra meant 3 wipes and disband in a Raid Finder party... I guess that's more understandable. But everyone joined of their own volition, anyway, so it still sounds like impatience and failure to really analyze what's going wrong. Are there exceptions if the wipes are caused by disconnects at pivotal points?

Almost everyone greets in NA. We even have plenty of NA who get perturbed when people do not.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

B being main tank was something I never heard of until people started talking about JP. Especially in WoD, it's either A or C since B means B's healers can't go into the belly on Cerberus since they have to babysit the tank. But generally it's kind of whoever wants the job and outside of a rare exception, all the tanks stay near each other so they can take over quickly if one goes down.

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Here, it's alliance A that goes into the belly while C takes care of the wolfsbanes. With this wave of new players though, WoD has started being a wipefest that some ppl try to avoid again.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I've seen people try to throw up the vote dismiss after one wipe in PF groups, lol. Or even in alliance raids sometimes. Generally everyone is like "WTF" and "Leave if you're that impatient". Far more often after the one or two impatient ones have left, I see everyone else stubbornly staying like "We WILL pass this, or die trying". Even Aether does have a point where we'll toss in the towel and a vote dismiss goes through, but we definitely gave it our all before that. I do think that is a difference, though, because it is in our culture to not think as well of someone who gives up what we consider too easily. I *have* seen DF groups that want to keep going that will kick someone at their request who doesn't, though, so they don't get a penalty, but that's usually after a few tries.

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The 3 wipes disband thing applies in general but it's particularly noticeable when ppl do savage weekly reclears using Raid Finder.
We post the macro, everyone calls out their positions, we attempt it once, twice, three times. Something is not clicking here when it's supposed to work like a well-oiled machine so we vote disband and regroup again with RF. I personally don't think it's about being impatient, because if it's a normal trial with first timers for example, we'll try to go until we clear for the sprouts. That's casual content though.

PF groups usually state how many wipes before they disband, this could be 3 or 5, or 3 before p2 in 12s and as many as it takes to clear after.


I can see a lot of it being due to cultural difference and that is partly why I made the video for new players who may never have to considered about this aspect of online gaming before.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

If Saphyra meant 3 wipes and disband in a Raid Finder party... I guess that's more understandable. But everyone joined of their own volition, anyway, so it still sounds like impatience and failure to really analyze what's going wrong. Are there exceptions if the wipes are caused by disconnects at pivotal points?
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Rather than pointing out what or "who" is making the mistakes, the Japanese would rather disband and reform. I'm not saying that this is a bad or a good thing, but it's a thing that is understandable from a cultural stand point, I think. Wipes caused by DCs usually don't count, no.

I generally don't wait for cutscenes if I am tanking, as they will be doing this content time and time again so enjoy the cs then start fighting whenever that's over.

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Originally Posted by Saphyra_Morwyn

Here, it's alliance A that goes into the belly while C takes care of the wolfsbanes. With this wave of new players though, WoD has started being a wipefest that some ppl try to avoid again.

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A = adds, B = belly, C = chains for us