9S Glam

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Even the hairstyles aren't entirely feminine. The one free style we've gotten all expansion is masculine, while the feminine ones all cost time or gil (while male characters can benefit if they're the lucky winner who doesn't want it). Then there's the Wind Caller style from Bozja and two of the three Ishgardian styles were finishing off the male winners of the hairstyle competition, even if they do look more "boyish" than "manly". And 9S's style as well.

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The one free hairstyle is the one new male hairstyle we've had this expansion. The 9S hairstyle is nearly identical to another we already had. The hairstyle content hair, I hate to say, are all feminine. No male styles came from it. At least, though, we've finally made it through all those winners and hopefully we can get something other than a pony tail with some kind of braids.

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Originally Posted by Luminare

I don't know if this has been asked before, but how come we didn't get a 9S glam?
We got his hair and minion but not the glam, which I wanted since the first nier raid.

Is it because no one requested it, or something else?
It's really upsetting.

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Just in case :
Ok Google : 9S Glam FFXIV

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Originally Posted by wereotter

The hairstyle content hair, I hate to say, are all feminine. No male styles came from it.

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As I said, there's the Wind Caller style (Lyon's hair) from Bozja which is definitely masculine despite being long. So is Misija's hair - it doesn't even look androgynous to me. It is distinctly a male character's hairstyle even if it's more "anime protagonist" than "manly man".

As I said, it's partly your perception of what counts as a "male hairstyle". Yours is evidently not mine, and mine seems closer to whoever is making the decisions.

I agree there's an imbalance but it's not all-versus-nothing.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

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Oh i know, it's not like see a lot of male characters with the new haircut on Chaos or the delubrum haircut as well. I won't be surprised if it's the same on other data centers.

Many outfits/haircuts described as "too masculine" look great on girls (even if they don't like it, it's not ridiculous), yet feminine outfits make males look REALLY goofy if you are not into that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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The lastest raid has male specific outfits, but female specific outfits as well. And the "unisex-masculine coats" are litterally coats without feminine stuff on it. Does that make it masculine ? Imo it was more unisex.
Isn't the 9S cosplay for healers only outside of the haircut? Then why 2B outfits isnt just for sam/mnk ?

The one free hairstyle we got was unisex as well (it's just a short haircut lol).
For the Ishgardian hairstyle everything is actually closer to unisex lol looks great on both genders, sure it's short but doesnt look bad on girls.
Wind Caller is masculine, i agree and shouldn't have been used as a unisex haircut but there's 2 more feminine haircuts from bojza.
2B/9S haircuts had good balance since it was released at the same time. Without counting them males got 1 masculine "unisex" haircut and females got 2 feminine "unisex" haircuts in shadowbringers. It doesnt look like a lot but if you watch stormblood haircuts it's the same thing and it's just adds up with older haircuts.

Short and not girly stuff =/= masculine. Something boyish is closer to unisex and that's why it's called that way imo, because boys have always a more androgynous look.

Very masculine girl right there : https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...048159eeb2.jpg

Like you said it's not like they gave zero things to males, but it's clear that there's more things for females imo.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

Just in case :
Ok Google : 9S Glam FFXIV

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Ppl wanted the real 9S outfit (that is already in the game), not something close to it.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

The lastest raid has male specific outfits, but female specific outfits as well. And the "unisex-masculine coats" are litterally coats without feminine stuff on it. Does that make it masculine ? Imo it was more unisex.

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And here, I think, is where we run into the "it's all unisex not masculine" argument, because I don't know how this can be resolved.

By your logic, if something is plain it is unisex.

If you add frills and ribbons to it, it becomes feminine and unsuitable for male characters.

So what creates the reverse effect? What can you add to make it so masculine that a female character couldn't wear it?

I honestly don't know if there is anything you can do there unless you can wind people's mindsets back to the era where only men wore pants and women wore skirts - and they would probably be even more inclined to class the plain outfit as masculine because unisex isn't a concept.

This is a society-wide thing, not an FFXIV thing. Women can get away with wearing men's clothes much more easily than men can get away with wearing women's clothes, without being socially labelled as odd or even identified as wearing the "wrong clothes".

The game maybe increases it because the real-world clues of exact style and fit that might tell you a woman is wearing clothes shaped for a man's body aren't there. In-game the outfit becomes more feminine on a female character because it is sized to fit them. So the question comes to clothing style alone, and the markers don't really exist.

Simply enough, "unisex" isn't a third shared type of clothing besides masculine and feminine, but women taking over the male half of a once-binary concept.


TL;DR: Women can wear plain things and frilly things, pants and skirts without being labelled "unfeminine". Men cannot wear frilly things and skirts without being labelled "unmasculine". This is not a problem of FFXIV's making.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

Wind Caller is masculine, i agree and shouldn't have been used as a unisex haircut

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Whatever you think of their theoretical balance between male and female styles, the solution is not functional genderlocking. It's not any less of a masculine hairstyle because female characters are allowed to equip it.

Conversely, there's no reason the feminine styles should be locked to female characters. If I can get something long and fancy to work well on my male characters, I'd be all for using it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

What are you looking at when you say that, and what are you overlooking?

The NieR collaboration has given an assortment of male-specific jackets and unisex-masculine coats, including the requested 9S cosplay or something close to it. The Crystarium aiming/scouting sets as well. Edenmete trenchcoats? Bozja gear?

Even the hairstyles aren't entirely feminine. The one free style we've gotten all expansion is masculine, while the feminine ones all cost time or gil (while male characters can benefit if they're the lucky winner who doesn't want it). Then there's the Wind Caller style from Bozja and two of the three Ishgardian styles were finishing off the male winners of the hairstyle competition, even if they do look more "boyish" than "manly". And 9S's style as well.

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So going by this logic, then 2b shouldn’t have gotten a glam coffer because the copied factory gear for females is something close to it. Keep in mind it’s all role locked. This entire raid has been female themed between the bosses and the things given from it. The little bit of male representation that i know of in the series barely even made an appearance and they couldn’t do the least and give us a 9s coffer for balance? Let’s look at the eden healing gear, the crafted healing gear. The nier raid healing gear. As for Bozja gear? Literally 3 sets are a FEMALE OUTFIT LMAO. As for the hairstyles, we’ve gotten numerous hair that’s literally just either braids or bows or androgynous filled-esque hair. In comparison to the male styles released there is a very evident imbalance. Funny how all these people seem to just be saying, "oh you can make your own." Yet i guarantee if it was the other way around and they gave 9s instead of 2b, y'all thirsty people would be raging hard.

Look, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have gotten the 9S outfit as an all-class glamour, but at least male characters get some chance to wear it. Female characters do not.

I guess I'm just in the mindset that if something is class-locked and I want to wear it, I wear it for that class. I don't have "all-purpose glamours" to apply to any job, but make individual outfits for each one.

And I am very definitely not "thirsty for 2B". I dislike her outfit and I dislike all the Type-51 dresses and the weird effect they have on my character's proportions.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Let’s look at the eden healing gear, the crafted healing gear. The nier raid healing gear. As for Bozja gear? Literally 3 sets are a FEMALE OUTFIT LMAO.

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Eden? You have a point, particularly with the first one, though personally I want the other two for my male Miqo'te who looks good (not feminine) in robes.

Crafted sets? You've got the Facet (Diabolic) set which is very definitely based on Victorian/elegant-gothic men's wear; the gender-separated steampunk Neo-Ishgardian gear, and the Exarchic set which is the only one that I'd say is feminine (and even then it's a bit of a weird design all round).

For Bozja, I was thinking specifically of the Bozjan gear when I said that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Look, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have gotten the 9S outfit as an all-class glamour, but at least male characters get some chance to wear it. Female characters do not.

I guess I'm just in the mindset that if something is class-locked and I want to wear it, I wear it for that class. I don't have "all-purpose glamours" to apply to any job, but make individual outfits for each one.

And I am very definitely not "thirsty for 2B". I dislike her outfit and I dislike all the Type-51 dresses and the weird effect they have on my character's proportions.




Eden? You have a point, particularly with the first one, though personally I want the other two for my male Miqo'te who looks good (not feminine) in robes.

Crafted sets? You've got the Facet (Diabolic) set which is very definitely based on Victorian/elegant-gothic men's wear; the gender-separated steampunk Neo-Ishgardian gear, and the Exarchic set which is the only one that I'd say is feminine (and even then it's a bit of a weird design all round).

For Bozja, I was thinking specifically of the Bozjan gear when I said that.

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Exarchic was the main one i was talking about. The thirsty wasn’t applied to you mainly just an overall thing(they literally added the butt thing for fanservice cmon.) My main point is though, again i point to the new Zadnor sets. Where literally 3 out of the (6?7?) sets are literal female gear just put on a male character. I don’t think they even altered it in any way. There is constant pandering to female characters and again, the males are given literal scraps. Mainly because i’d assume female characters are more prominent in the game, so they just try to appease them more. Instead of take time to properly alter certain glams so it suits both males and females, we’re just left with really weird either inherently feminine or androgynous gear/hair.
https://imgur.com/dFUrtdj case and point

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Originally Posted by Iscah

As I said, there's the Wind Caller style (Lyon's hair) from Bozja which is definitely masculine despite being long. So is Misija's hair - it doesn't even look androgynous to me. It is distinctly a male character's hairstyle even if it's more "anime protagonist" than "manly man".

As I said, it's partly your perception of what counts as a "male hairstyle". Yours is evidently not mine, and mine seems closer to whoever is making the decisions.

I agree there's an imbalance but it's not all-versus-nothing.

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Warrior of Light haircut I think I thought was part of last expansion, so that's a fair callout. However if we're counting Lyon's hair... I didn't get it myself so I didn't realize it was obtainable, but even then, based off his character model, it's another copy-paste of King's/Gladio's hairstyles we already had + bandanna. I know there's a lot more limits on what can be done with masculine hairstyles, but there's still a lot more that could be made but aren't.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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well it's : "It's not unisex, it's masculine. Look boys use it." VS "lol no it's unisex, girls use it as well and it looks great".

It's easier to make something unisex if it's plain.

If you add frills and ribbons on a unisex outfit to make it masculine it will end up different than adding frills and ribbons to make it feminine.

you can and a lot of girls will think it looks goofy on females, because it's not adapted for a female body.

It's a scociety thing and i never said FFXIV has to resolve that. Trying to satisfy ppl who want more masculine things is a bad thing ? I mean ppl here ask for this "If you make a unisex look, don't choose something that look goofy on the males plz". The easy way to make that is to avoid braids, cute ribbons etc.

Instead of making this for the males (look at the poor highlander lmao) : https://ffxivcollect.com/hairstyles/419
Do you really think it males wouldn't look better with something like that ? : https://i2.wp.com/66.media.tumblr.co...e00o1_1280.png
Or this ? : https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dg...20190929111413
And Estinien already has something close right? It's already better, but i don't think it would look that great on a male roe and highlander :s

Men can wear frilly things and skirts but you won't take a feminine outfit/haircut copy paste it on a male without changing anything and see most many straight males think it look super cool (and gay guys here won't like it) and rush to get it, complain about the drop rates etc... xD

Edit: I call something "unisex", when it looks great on both genders (no matter what you are into). Not trying to push a concept, it's easier to make my point like that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Whatever you think of their theoretical balance between male and female styles, the solution is not functional genderlocking. It's not any less of a masculine hairstyle because female characters are allowed to equip it.

Conversely, there's no reason the feminine styles should be locked to female characters. If I can get something long and fancy to work well on my male characters, I'd be all for using it.

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I think genderlocking is a good solution, if there's not enough time to make 1 feminine and 1 masculine option for everyone: make something that looks decent on every race and gender.