People who like Bozja/Eureka, I would like your input

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Originally Posted by Jade3173

except like many others, I don't like Bozja style content and would rather go back to the ARR/HW ways of getting them. Pretty much what the entire post is about is trying to get a middle ground. And as others, in other threads, have pointed out, it's a bit odd to suddenly require it after 3 steps of not needing bozja. So sure, can call it crying, but I'm actually trying to find something constructive for people who do enjoy Bozja so I can go back to enjoying my ARR/HW relic grind

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Also those ARR/HW relics would have made you cry if you did them when they were current.

This new relic is the easiest relic grind we have ever had by far. Comparing it to years old heavily nerfed content and expecting that same level of ease is just not what relics are about.

You’ll get a chance to get it easily later on.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

But you don’t need this relic that’s my point. It’s an optional weapon that’s on par with a savage raid weapon and only a little bit better than a tomestone weapon.

If you don’t want to do the content that it requires then just don’t do it.

The problem with the relic is they made the beginning steps far too easy and let a lot of people start it who now are upset. But if you can’t spend 10 hours or so to complete the main Bozja quest then relic grinds maybe aren’t for you. They aren’t asking you to even get the memories in there, simply they want you to complete one quest line and do two dungeons one time.

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except they were, that's why I had 4 luxs by the time HW ended and went back in SB to get BRD's. I also honestly have no problem with what they're asking for the steps. Would probably cut down to DNC and SCH or GNB rather than the 6 or 7 I currently have sitting at the i500 step. If Square turned around tomorrow and removed the need to do Bozja's story, I'd be all over getting my DNC's relic.

But you seem to be on the warpath saying everyone is crying if they don't like bozja. Funny, it's a forum, people are offering their feedback that the sudden requirement of it, and thus trying to get in for Castrum, is bad design since if you're not in the initial wave, you're going to be hard pressed to get it done

Bozja is great because its a difficulty between Normal and Savage which we need more of. Basically Extreme level fight but has more players so you can get used to it easier without completely destroying the groups progress if you mess up mechanics and introduces harder more punishing mechanics.

Alliance raids I feel are too easy and Bozja is a nice compromise.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Also those ARR/HW relics would have made you cry if you did them when they were current.

This new relic is the easiest relic grind we have ever had by far. Comparing it to years old heavily nerfed content and expecting that same level of ease is just not what relics are about.

You’ll get a chance to get it easily later on.

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Noticed you always assume people didn't do relics before when they were relevant, you really shouldn't assume things.

Did my WHM Zeta, I got my Z title the hard way. Admittedly it is my only ARR relic. 100% did AST's HW relic when it was new, got to skip the first stage of it cause I turned in my WHM's Zeta. Enjoyed doing it so much that I actually started farming stuff for PLD's relic alongside my AST's. Once I figured out I enjoyed BLM and MNK enough to want more up to date weapons for them since I was no longer raiding, started doing those as well. Yes by that time some of the stages had been nerfed, but I'd already done 2 relics so I wasn't going to complain

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Also those ARR/HW relics would have made you cry if you did them when they were current.

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Completely incorrect. I did ARR and especially HW on multiple classes when they were current. I experienced the original atma grind though it was one reason I had less than I went for in HW. Animas were great. Yeah, they required a grind. But they made it possible to log on that night and progress a bit further, and you had choices on how to get the required updates.

Relics are supposed to be the slower casual alternative to the faster-to-get Savage weapons. They are supposed to be a grind. They also in ARR and HW had the added benefit that they breathed new life into older content by having quests that progressed from doing it. That's one good thing about the outside Bozja alternatives on this questline.

But they aren't supposed to be tied to instanced zones with limited shelf lives peppered with forced group content that will die once the content piranhas are done with it. You're very flippant about all the people here who are saying Castrum is a massive bottleneck for them now. And that's due to SE's bad design choices.

I started playing Eureka when it first started. I was amazed with the idea in concept but remembered how diadem went. Big and open with regular fates and nothing else. The only change was the element wheel and certain number of fates popping NMs. You were locked out of mounts and atherytes early stage and if you were lower element level, you'd get easily one shot and pray for revive or for someone to let you ride their 2/4 player mount. And mobs were huge HP sponges that preferred tanks or healers before eureka actions were added and locked behind a further zone. And the special "raid" was tied to the last zone and was rare and easily exploited to break pre-made group planning with a lackluster conclusion to any story. A bunch of lalafels take you to a deserted island? Hooray...
I'm glad I stopped there since even the relics looked ugly.

I was concerned with Bozja early on if it would be just the same. Big empty zone with many more big empty zones later to further split the playerbase. But it being the land where Hrothgar were and rolling as one day 1. I felt more engaged with the story and content loop than Eureka, I need a better reason to go somewhere rather than "go on adventure". And the story is closely tied to the MSQ in terms of plot revelations and lore. Bozja is on the opposite side of the empire and we're ridding the place of gentrification and backwaters aristotle state theory tied in a fascist bow. So the plot and drive to play the content is already miles ahead of Eureka. Gameplaynwise, they got rid of the most annoying parts of Eureka and improved them at the expense of very little rewards for the sake of pleasing people who didn't want to play much Eureka or any sort of that content, thereby pleasing fewer. Though, by design I do appreciate that there might be just 1 or 2 zones that are much more condensed and filled with multiple skirmish(fates) and mobs. Critical Engagements being what the primal capture encounters could have been if Yoshida implemented them before scrapping. With some Skirmishes giving you buff priority to engage in them. And the smaller funneled in zones keeps players close together so there is less of a visible train and more circles of players coming to participate in all directions. And the lost actions and mobs are much more inclusive and/or easier to manage. And I don't mind enemies not dropping mettle, you're incentiviezd to party up and join CE. the problem is not getting mettle or other bigger rewards from Castrum.

Its a fun encounter that has people try and communicate and its now tied to relic completion. Its such a cool feeling when you down it without voice chat. Yet its such a cluster of inconvenience and with no mettle to at least cushion for the amount you lost scares players from at least trying besides the long wait time. How about using coins in exchange for mettle back? Its only for superfluous gear with the upgrades giving haste that might ruin rotations. And please, just give 90 minutes to clear at the start. Nothing is more sad when you get past Lyon and you only got the boss at 10% before it boots you and then have to leave if you're running low on instance time meaning the next time it pops could be completely different players. The 24 man and even the 48 man are what it should've been. Even with the 3 strikes you're out mechanic it incentives players to just crank dps or agility build lost actions. EVEN THE WEEKLY QUEST GETS YOU METTLE! For someone that dies only 1 to 3 times in there that generously gets me back to cap.

Overall. Bozja has the potential to easily usurp all of Eureka by just prioritizing more rewards and have Castrum be easier to pop and cushion mettle sink. Meaning the 24 man has a justifiable reason for the punishing doom mechanic since its even easier to join. Personally, I never felt happier with such content. Joining people on the Frontline to storm Castrum in a story that really meshes with my player character and the MSQ. The devs having the relic quest locked behind it makes me inspired to learn it while inviting more players in to teach/lead. I just learned and trounced Lyon just to help new players focus on Gryphon for the first time. If this is how early MMOs were, then I can see why it was appreciated. Building a group against something that is close to being t1-5 coil difficult and seeing new players excited chats really is its own reward that I never thought I could reclaim since 2015 (scheduled raid groups are still dumb).

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Also those ARR/HW relics would have made you cry if you did them when they were current.

This new relic is the easiest relic grind we have ever had by far. Comparing it to years old heavily nerfed content and expecting that same level of ease is just not what relics are about.

You’ll get a chance to get it easily later on.

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B.S.

This relic is relatively easy while it's current. Later when people literally can't get anyone to run CLL, they'll hit a massive roadblock.

That's the problem with ilvl syncing and level syncing relic content, it becomes harder to do after the expansion instead of easier.

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Originally Posted by Jade3173

except like many others, I don't like Bozja style content and would rather go back to the ARR/HW ways of getting them. Pretty much what the entire post is about is trying to get a middle ground. And as others, in other threads, have pointed out, it's a bit odd to suddenly require it after 3 steps of not needing bozja. So sure, can call it crying, but I'm actually trying to find something constructive for people who do enjoy Bozja so I can go back to enjoying my ARR/HW relic grind

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Quick question.

Did you do the ARR/HW relics when they were released, or the heavily nerfed forms available today?
Because if you find farming fates in Bozja boring. Explain to me how farming fates in upper la noscea for 6 days to get ONE of twelve drops was fun. Or having to spend stupid amounts of gil trying to fit materias into a relic while praying to God the goddam thing actually enters this time and doesnt break both the materia AND the alexandrite. Running Garuda and Cape Westwind for hours upon hours to get lights... etc.

I liked Eureka because it was my first time doing this (didn't really touch Diadem back then). Sure it had its flaws but I had a great time in the end, people were fun, preparing NMs felt meaningful, and the time you put in your relic didn't appear as such because you were doing something else in Eureka (at least it felt like this for me).
I also liked the maps, it was the first time FFXIV open world meant something in a gameplay perspective.

Bozja for me took everything fun about Eureka and made something very insipid. The map isnt interesting, the fates are redundant and CE aren't really prepared. Everything just happens and you happen to be there too. One VS One are a design failure. Castrum Lacus Litore is poorly thought (although the instance was okay), and they seem to be repeating the very same mistake with Delubrum Reginae. The content wears out so fast.
And the relic part is either too random within Bozja, or so out of touch with the current content of the game outside of Bozja that it's just demotivating when we have done Crystal Tower or POTD ad nauseam in our basic gaming experience. I don't really mind FATEs but we've just got Yokai overdose, and now I hear they are not guaranteed to drop tokens. Expecting us to go back in the first Bozja zone is just so lazy when the droprate isn't interesting either. I think it's just an overall design failure.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I don't disagree, but I feel like this statement is true of all relic weapons anyway. It's not like Zodiac weapons or Anima weapons were designed to be completed in an evening, and Eureka weapons are one heck of a grind. Eureka even threw in a bonus armor grind as well!

Like it or hate it, I don't feel like the long-term grind for this should be a surprise.

I'd actually argue the new Law's Order stuff is a great deal more generous than Eureka; the pieces cost 2 or 3 of the Gold Bozjan Coins, and you can get 3 per week for just running Delubrum Reginae once.

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The surprise is that it's infinitely more viable to do the relic grind outside of the content that was designed for it.
Memory drops in Bozja should be comparable to memory drops outside, so that people actually play Bozja and it's not a dead instance in a weeks time.