Everything wrong with 5.3 AST sleeve draw [Translated JP duplicate thread]

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Originally Posted by hiz

You are making no sense. How is losing 2 cards per 3 minutes not a DPS nerf? What matters if it still outDPSs other jobs, it's still a nerf is it not? And what makes you think logs post partition at this point are in any way indicative of job strength when pretty much no top tier player has pulled properly yet?

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I never said it was not a nerf.

I said AST is not suffering. It's still doing extremely high damage.

As for the data's validity - most jobs right now have over 1000 logs submitted (Some very unpopular jobs, like Monk and Bard, are still under 1k at the time of this writing. AST is not one of these). Yes, that's not the highest, and it will increase over time. However, keep in mind we're in a raid tier where almost everyone's familiar with the fights, people are geared instead of progging, etc etc. Don't expect the data to move much once we have weeks' or months' worth.

One way or another, we are already seeing that AST is extremely strong with any significant sample size, and there's a very small number of white mages in the world (not enough to have statistical significance in a percentile category) that can go slightly higher. Exactly as it was pre-5.3.

It's fine, of course, if you don't like the simplification of the patch and preferred pre-5.3 busy-ness. But AST is not hurting for DPS.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

That we ALWAYS have to wait 30 seconds for the cards before the pull. I already had it because I usually used an MA card (King or Queen) as the first card in prepull. So so group had to wait 30 sek anyways.

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Again untrue. The difference between new and old SD is that with old SD you could still Divi on opener even if your PF tank abruptly starts pulling, while with new SD this is physically impossible. Hence the wording "it feels bad in PF context". In all honesty I couldn't parse some of your English, and if I'm still not coming through it's probably my fault. I am sorry.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

AST now has top rdps, top mobility, buckets of mana and is easier to play. It's the best healer in the game by far.

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True, but my point is the job still suffered a nerf (which I'm fine with), and the way they did it sucks. I'm really not trying to talk about DPS here.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I said AST is not suffering. It's still doing extremely high damage.

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This is true, but in the original post we were never implying that DPS (nerf) was any problem in the first place. We weren't talking about DPS. We were saying was that AST is suffering because it lost its most interesting job mechanic.

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Originally Posted by hiz

This is true, but in the original post we were never implying that DPS (nerf) was any problem in the first place. We weren't talking about DPS. We were saying was that AST is suffering because it lost its most interesting job mechanic.

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In the original, yes. I'm not saying that's an invalid opinion, I can see how some wouldn't like this.

The person I was replying to/quoted, however, made it sound like DPS, as in the actual amount of damage done, was an issue. Possibly it was just unclear, but my reply was given in this particular context.

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Originally Posted by hiz

This is true, but in the original post we were never implying that DPS (nerf) was any problem in the first place. We weren't talking about DPS. We were saying was that AST is suffering because it lost its most interesting job mechanic.

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This is highly subjective. For a lot of people, including those amongst the raid scene, Sleeve Draw was a garbage ability due to its clunky design and it necessitating Lightspeed. What they ultimately landed on may not have been ideal but it cannot be denied how much push back Sleeve received. Frankly, I think the change simply needs to add Charges and/or reduce Sleeve's CD.

Of course, people are still upset over Astro's new direction from its old iteration. So I wouldn't be entirely surprised if this were a band-aid fix while they go back to the drawing board for 6.0.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

That we ALWAYS have to wait 30 seconds for the cards before the pull. I already had it because I usually used an MA card (King or Queen) as the first card in prepull. So so group had to wait 30 sek anyways.

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Why you would ever play MA first is beyond me, that's just flat out wrong. You wanted your seals as fast as possible for Divination, and you need your MA as filler in order to replace duplicate seals after a Redraw. Far too many people got the old opener wrong despite it being readily available and intuitive, making it harder than it should've - for example not using Lightspeed during the opener in order to weave more cards.

Regardless you never HAD to wait 30s before the pull - you always had AT LEAST 4 cards, now if you want a Divination in the opener you have to wait.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This is a kind of interesting contrast to the many complaints of AST having too much to do/too much micromanagement, which have been vocalized pretty often on these forums. Seems SE is going to make some people unhappy one way or another...

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You'll notice that whenever something is a huge change brought about by forum regulars world wide, you get a flood of influx from people who would never use the forums otherwise to speak up. Because forums historically suck and there is 0 incentive to use it here. Not everyone watches Live Letters nor reads the entirety of patch notes save for job changes. And they have opportunities to make their opinions heard before its too late.

I don't even play AST but I know several people massively unhappy with it, which is why I checked out this thread. None of which use the forums.

Would be really great to somehow get it across to players their opinions matter and harping in private discords and chats doesn't change anything, talking to the managers does.

Keep new SD.
Reduce CD to 120s.
Give it 2 charges.

I don't buy the "3 cards is more complicated than 1 card so it's better" argument.
If 3 cards was so great, why not ask for it to give 5 cards?
Even harder! Even better!

I would be fine with the 5.05-5.2 Sleeve Draw if they updated their targeting system for controller players to allow better smoothness from player to targets.

SE however has not updated this system since launch and likely to never do so, as such I want 5.3 Sleeve Draw to remain, I would much rather have the annoyance of Divination is delayed due to early pull than what I had to deal with since 5.0.

Yes this is very much a situation where not everyone can be happy just like 5.X healer design in general, just like those that voice discontent, I will voice approval for this change until a better system is offered.

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Originally Posted by hiz

but thats a highly subjective statement too.

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What? How is that statement remotely subjective when we had several threads spanning the year both here and on reddit how terrible Sleeve Draw was? SE wouldn't have made such a change to begin with if there wasn't enough complaints. If you mean to insinuate raiders weren't complaining, you need only venture into The Balance. You preferring old Sleeve Draw doesn't mean it hasn't been viewed as a divisive ability.