FFXIV Developper please consider replace bloodspiller animation with Cloud's Braver

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

DRK already uses a number of Cloud direct or inspired by animations, so that precedence is already there for using Cloud's animations as a basis for DRK animations.

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No DRK doesn't use a "number" of Cloud inspired animations. The only thing that is similar and possibly inspired is Soul eater.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Here is a link to a video with all of Cloud's limit breaks and a quick off-the-cuff list of animations that DRK uses that are taken from Cloud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0-4WC-LYo
- DRK /vpose and /bstance are directly pulled from Cloud.
- Soul Eater is the animation for Climhazzard.
- The now removed ability Dark Passenger was basically Blade Beam with the trail vfx changed to look more "Dark Knighty".
- While not exactly the same, Carve and Spit is very similar to Cross Slash with the three consecutive slashes where it could easily be considered to be inspired by.

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-DRK /vpose and /bstance are not directly pulled from Cloud their source came from an actual swordsman. EDIT: To be more specific they came from a martial artist who won a tournament a year before. Frame for frame they are a direct copy.
-DP was not basically blade beam, wasn't even close. The animation isn't the same and the particle effect isn't.
-CnS is not similar to cross slash... Other than it's 3 consecutive slashes.


You're really reaching with these for no reason.

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

-DRK /vpose and /bstance are not directly pulled from Cloud their source came from an actual swordsman. EDIT: To be more specific they came from a martial artist who won a tournament a year before. Frame for frame they are a direct copy.

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Can you provide a video or some form of evidence of this with the appropriate dates to back up this claim?

Asides from there being a well known history to the Cloud victory pose, to back up mine here is an image of the animation concept art which includes the iconic Cloud victory pose.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130223012922

and video showing the Cloud victory pose through out the years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksltbx4sVq0

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

-DP was not basically blade beam, wasn't even close. The animation isn't the same and the particle effect isn't.

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The animations are virtually the same and I stated the vfx were different. Are they 100% exact replicas? No and I never stated such, even explicitly pointing out a major difference, however with two ability animations that have the player raise a large 2-handed sword above their head before slamming the ground with it and producing a burst of energy that moves out in a line to strike the enemy, the connection should be apparent.

Dark Passenger
https://youtu.be/0VOJncaYam8?t=206

Blade Beam
https://youtu.be/KG0-4WC-LYo?t=14

It's even more similar to Blade Beam in animation than the FF7 Remake version of Blade Beam, Blade Burst.
https://youtu.be/MvqI59da6Ow?t=105

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

-CnS is not similar to cross slash... Other than it's 3 consecutive slashes.

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This is the only one that I feel is potentially up for debate yet has noticeable similarities, hence the "it could easily be considered to be inspired by" as opposed to saying that it definitively is.
It could it be considered inspired by due to the emphasis of being a three-fold attack, which was a major aspect of Cross Slash. I also see similarities between the animations, particularly the cadence of the slashes, however how similar they are I will leave up to the interpretation of the viewer.

Carve and Spit
https://youtu.be/0VOJncaYam8?t=348

Cross Slash
https://youtu.be/KG0-4WC-LYo?t=5

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

You're really reaching with these for no reason.

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Or you could simply be choosing to not see what is there for some reason or to simply be brusquely argumentative for no reason.
Whose to say? Both seem potentially valid and I guess it depends on who brings the better reasoning and evidence for people to decide which they feel is the case.

HEMA LS/fencing tournament 2012-14. Is what you're looking for. Finals to be specific. I am on phone in a crappy area, not gonna wait for buffering. I concede though, you may be right it could be taken from Cloud as he did come first.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

The animations are virtually the same and I stated the vfx were different. Are they 100% exact replicas? No and I never stated such, even explicitly pointing out a major difference, however with two ability animations that have the player raise a large 2-handed sword above their head before slamming the ground with it and producing a burst of energy that moves out in a line to strike the enemy, the connection should be apparent.

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Cloud brings his sword across his shoulder then sends out a line wave.
DP is an actual overhead slash as taken with any large sword from any swordsman. The animations are not virtually the same barely even close to replicas (note in ff7 Cloud does make overhead slashes so it's intended for it to be over the shoulder). Overhead slash vs overshoulder slash. That is a reach to say they're the same, similar, or one inspired the other. There is no apparent connection to say it's inspired from Cloud over actual swordsmanship. REACH
FYI, DP the sword actually never touches the ground, even with the fattest weapon in game. Unless coincidence, you can't call it slamming it to the ground. Always hovers just above it.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

This is the only one that I feel is potentially up to debate yet has noticeable similarities, hence the "it could easily be considered to be inspired by".
It could it be considered inspired by due to the emphasis of being a three-fold attack, which was a major aspect of Cross Slash. I also see similarities between the animations, particularly the cadence of the slashes, however how similar they are I will leave up to the interpretation of the viewer.

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There is no debate unless someone is that thirsty for DRK skills to be inspired by Cloud that they force see something not there. Cross slash is an overhead slash into two horizontal slashes. CnS is in short 3 vertical slashes. If one can look at both videos you posted and think "Hmm CnS is potentially inspired by this, they're kinda similar" they're blind af. So by your logic any 3 fold slash in any FF game after 7 could be inspired by Cloud? REACH

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Or you could simply be choosing to not see what is there for some reason or to simply be brusquely argumentative for no reason.
Whose to say? Both seem potentially valid and I guess it depends on who brings the better reasoning and evidence for people to decide which they feel is the case.

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Or you could simply be trying to force see some skill(s) of DRK to be inspired by Cloud or to be excessively thirsty for it, for no reason. Whose to say?

Anywho you can see what you wish was just silly the amount of reaching for skills to be similar.

I don't think DRK needs anything from Cloud. Bloodspiller is fine the way it is. Though it's not a "fun" attack to spam as someone said here. As for DRK skills being inspired by Cloud. I just don't see it at all. FF7 is my all time favorite and I've never once played DRK and though any of their skills looked remotely similar. The battle pose and victory pose however are a different story.

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Originally Posted by Kniteroad

Yea no. Melee LB1 or LB2 (I forget which) is the braver animation. That makes no sense to have it as a dark knight animation. Goes against the DRK style, or what style it used to have at least.

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Cloud is a tortuted soul using an overly huge 2h sword, so I can't think of any other FF character that suit the dark knight theme bether then him.

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

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So ... insults is your method of debating. I think that says all I need to know about your arguments.
Also by no means am I "thirsty" for things to be Cloud inspired, he is far from my favorite of Final Fantasy characters and I actually find him to be a tad over-hyped.

I'm fine with being argued against and even proven wrong, but being rude af is just not cool. So yeah, we are done here.

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Originally Posted by Venur

Cloud is a tortuted soul using an overly huge 2h sword, so I can't think of any other FF character that suit the dark knight theme bether then him.

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I don't know if this is satire or not. If it's not then in terms of skills and playstyle then Cecil. Squall, they already gave him some of Squalls animation from dissidia. Quietus = fated circle without the ending frame. There's quite a few others.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

So ... insults is your method of debating. I think that says all I need to know about your arguments.
Also by no means am I "thirsty" for things to be Cloud inspired, he is far from my favorite of Final Fantasy characters and I actually find him to be a tad over-hyped.

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Saying someone is blind for seeing something that's not there or even close to being there is insulting? Sure thing bud. Couldn't dispute what I said so needed a copout? Got it.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I'm fine with being argued against and even proven wrong, but being rude af is just not cool. So yeah, we are done here.

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Seems more like you couldn't form an argument so you're looking for a copout as I said. You clearly aren't fine with it if you have to resort to this. If you consider thirsty an insult then you should probs stay off the internet. I'll happily say I'm thirsty af for Squall hence my hype with GNB.

We are done here since you couldn't bring anything to justify your points that wasn't a hard reach.

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

Saying someone is blind for seeing something that's not there or even close to being there is insulting? Sure thing bud. Couldn't dispute what I said so needed a copout? Got it.



Seems more like you couldn't form an argument so you're looking for a copout as I said. You clearly aren't fine with it if you have to resort to this. If you consider thirsty an insult then you should probs stay off the internet. I'll happily say I'm thirsty af for Squall hence my hype with GNB.

We are done here since you couldn't bring anything to justify your points that wasn't a hard reach.

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When one no longer has an argument they go that "offended" route to get out of it without having to look too bad or wrong.

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Originally Posted by OnyxBlackheart

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I thought you were the one that initially said you were done, but if you want me to provide counter-points I can do that.

Yes, Blade Beam is over the shoulder and then down while Dark Passenger actually spins down, back and then up and over the head at a slight diagonal, so that is somewhat different. However the fact that both are a big two-handed sword being brought up and then down to generate a burst of energy that travels outwards in a line is something I would call too similar to be merely coincidence. I will concede though that me saying that the animations are "virtually the same" was perhaps too strong of phrasing.

As for Carve and Spit, they are all actually diagonal slashes not vertical, so the details that you are using as arguing points are a little off. However, yes the slashes in the animations of the two abilities are different. I never said otherwise.
You are fine to argue and feel that there is no connection, I don't really care all that much about whether it is or not inspired by Cross Slash. I can see both sides of the argument and could easily argue both, I just happened to see enough of a similarity that I felt like mentioning that it could easily be seen as potentially inspired by it for the reasons I have given.

As for being rude and insulting, saying that someone would have to be "blind af" to see what I am seeing is an insult. One would have to be "blind af" not to see that.
The term "thirsty" in of itself is not an insult but within the context that you used it, yes it is. Saying that I am "that thirsty for DRK skills to be inspired by Cloud" and that I am "excessively thirsty for it", is contextually an insult. Seeing how there is an intrinsic sexual nature to the term "thirsty", you are basically saying that I must have such a hard-on for Cloud that I want to insert (only slight pun intended) references to him into FF14 for some form of self gratification.
When one says it about themselves such as you saying "I am thirst af for Squall" it's fine, because you are simply being casually self-deprecating , no different that than saying something like "I'm such an idiot that I ..." or whatnot. Leveling that against someone else, particularly in an argumentative fashion is vastly different, much like if I were to say "you are an idiot for saying ...", that would be an insult.

So no I don't need to "probs stay off the internet", I just understand context and how it can vastly alter what is being said and how it will come across, something you should perhaps put a bit more thought into.
I also didn't follow with an argument as a "cop-out" but because you said you were done, which you seem to have now edited out, and was thus dropping continuing the debate but felt I should point out that your approach was rude.

Anyways, I don't see this going anywhere productive and so I will just leave it at agreeing to disagree.