Hi SE, can we get rid of the current card system in next expansion, pls?

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I've never liked this "the people who like are in game playing it not on the forums" argument, things that are bad cause people to get out of the game and onto the forums to complain, also this statement isn't backed up by facts, like the fact that AST is objectively less played now than before, meaning you can easily extrapolate that to mean more people liked the old system

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by its own,the fact AST is played less then before can come from a few reasons:

1.the hype of DNC and GNB new job made people leave healers.
2.the different changes to the classes probably made them more appealing then AST.
3.the new changes to AST were so bad ,it made people leave it including those who main it for so long.(which is true)

however when u add the facts:

1.that there are many and long threads on the healer role forum about quitting healing because of the changes made,the issues people have with healers especially AST, the many rework ideas on how to change the current card system and many thread requests to return the old things healers had which also include the old things ast had.

2.we are now at later date of the expansion and the new job hype has dialed down.

3.there is a "healer needed" in DF more maybe even worse then before.(meaning you see it more often that healer is needed)

4.there is significantly less AST players around then before.

5. people left cause the other jobs are way more fun then AST currently is.

it clearly paints the picture that those changes made people walk away and leave AST which in the end means those changes were and still are bad and if something wont change then most likely AST will be a myth job u see in runs.

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Originally Posted by Alynn

There's nothing this new system of cards does that the old one doesn't do. People complained about balance fishing, but you're doing the same thing with the seals for divination, and even more so when you're doing your opener and you're trying to get the 3 different seals by the 3rd - 5th gcd. Utility does not amount to slapping cards on dps just cause. Utility was being able to save pulls with boles and ewers, or deciding when to redraw or hold onto your card for the next trick, etc. There's very little thinking to be had with new ast [except, of course the Seals just mentioned]. You see if its ranged or melee, you slap it on the dps. Get 3 seals, press divination on cd. It's glorified busy work.

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What it does that the old system didn't:

• Making it competitive to actually target specific players instead of almost only ever going for AoE Balance>Arrow>Spear
• Reducing the feeling of "X or trash" and the frequent need for Undraw.
• Removing "waste" cards. (Sort of.)
• Offering improved control over RNG in its "fishing" process through Redraw, no RR conflicts, and Minor Arcana.

What it does wrong:

• Making it competitive to actually target specific players, because it makes controller players aware of how much they're missing by playing controller when they have to actually target people quickly.
• Reducing the feeling of "X or trash" and the frequent need for Undraw, because it makes controller players aware of how much they're missing by playing controller when they have to actually target people quickly.
• Removing waste cards, because it makes controller players aware of how much they're missing by playing controller when they have to actually target people quickly and varying levels of situational (sub-)optimality is still better than arbitrary types.
• Offering improved control over RNG in its "fishing" process through Redraw, no RR conflicts, and Minor Arcana, because we'd rather just complain about RNG than actually follow any procedure to optimize it.

I agree that the old card effects were better, but I fail to see why that should mean Seals are inherently bad design despite that they could have offered the very nudge we needed to see a greater breadth of viable card choices. The Ranged/Melee distinction is utter rubbish, but there's nothing wrong with attaching a counterpoint to those or moving the AoE function into something else when it would otherwise make virtually any and all single-target (outside of a lucky panic-ST Bole on MT) use a trap.

Bring back old system. Get rid of old balance (make it direct hit or something). Nerf the aoe royal road.

AST = fun again

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It's at least a good reason to push for those control improvements found in other games, be it target scan, stacked actions, smart targeting, or whatever else.

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shurrikhan, maybe create a post in general discussions to push QoL improvement to the targeting in the game,it might make a difference for 5.2 or later date if it get enough feedback. :)

Rather lose a sect, pretty sure being able to do both has frequently harmed the balance of this job more than anything else in the toolkit.

I like the card system the way it is now. I mean, I know it's bad, but I don't hate playing it. Choosing to play a healer feels like trying to pick the lesser of 3 evils and I find the current card system tolerable (more tolerable than glitchy fairies and glare spam). I'd much prefer for the potencies of the cards to be buffed (or make them last longer) so it feels like I'm contributing anything. I know there's a huge problem with targeting with AST, but it just personally doesn't bug me.

That being said I'd still welcome a change to the card system as long as I'm pulling cards as frequently and have something to occupy myself with besides Malefic spam. I hated playing AST pre-SHB (was funner to play SCH with the DPS options + fairy management), but I love it now because I have something to do other than spam a nuke, and that's what all of the other healers became. :<

I'm afraid that if they change the card system again they'll simplify it even more because of everyone complaining about the targeting and less than optimal usage on PS4. I don't want another boring healer to play, and every change Square Enix seems to make to healers seems to be... uh ...made based off of some questionable knowledge about the state of healers and/or the individual healer job itself.

I feel like there's a huge issue when I no longer even pay attention to WHAT card was drawn, but instead what SEAL was drawn and if it's for Melee or Ranged, as that's all I'm really looking at now. With the old system I knew exactly what every single card did as soon as it came up, but even though I've been playing AST since 5.0's release I still couldn't tell you off the top of my head what seals belong to what cards. I don't believe that's because I'm bad or anything either, but more because there's no real need anymore.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Rather lose a sect, pretty sure being able to do both has frequently harmed the balance of this job more than anything else in the toolkit.

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No more so than simply bringing a WHM+Cards or SCH+Cards would... AST is neither the king of Regen nor the king of Shields, and cannot do both simultaneously except during Neutral Sect, so it certainly hasn't been a balance concern (except between the two Sects themselves) before, doesn't seem one now, and isn't likely to be in the future.

If anything, its oGCD kit may overpower it and require curtailing elsewhere, but apart from that and Card rDPS, there aren't any fundamental pushes against AST's balance to be dealt with.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I agree that the old card effects were better, but I fail to see why that should mean Seals are inherently bad design despite that they could have offered the very nudge we needed to see a greater breadth of viable card choices. The Ranged/Melee distinction is utter rubbish, but there's nothing wrong with attaching a counterpoint to those or moving the AoE function into something else when it would otherwise make virtually any and all single-target (outside of a lucky panic-ST Bole on MT) use a trap.

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I agree. The new card system has issues, but it's better base to build an interesting system off of than the old cards. AoEing cards all the time was a bit boring in hindsight and seals have a lot of potential, they just need to do something more substantial than they do now and need to be more controllable by the player.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

I agree. The new card system has issues, but it's better base to build an interesting system off of than the old cards. AoEing cards all the time was a bit boring in hindsight and seals have a lot of potential, they just need to do something more substantial than they do now and need to be more controllable by the player.

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SE never announces it is planning to do so, so most people don't hope/expect for anything to be changed especially since SE announced that they wont change the cards to have varied effects and it will stay like this.
so don't count on the system to have something more substantial then what they do now ,it might become more controller friendly but probably at the expense of removing more stuff from AST as they did with MA and its animation.(which is why we push for the card system to be remade)

the idea isn't flawed but its execution severely is and it must be changed ,either to the old card system or a new system or even have them rebuilt this seal fishing system from the ground up. whatever SE decides to do, it need to give the cards and using them meanings again.