Upcoming ninja changes for 5.08 and 5.1

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Originally Posted by Drayos

u could argue this with every Job.

What about Dancer and RDM Which sits at the bottom of the DPS List due to Utility they bring and more?.. u cant just gut out Utility for Pure DPSers because of this. Raiding is about Being Apart of a party aiming to achieve high performance. you cannot Just remove this from a game for one job because of these reasons and not do it across the board and we'll slowly reach a point of everyone being a Pure DPS.

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Goes back to what i often say about rdps being what ppl are arguing over for "balance" DNC imo should do the less personal, but if synergized with provide much more rdps. Tho i could argue that with curing waltz and improv, they shouldnt over shadow a more oure dps, hardest oart about balance is the usefullness of utility vs dps loss. CW doesnt FEEL all that powerful imo

I barely actually play rdm cept for giggles, and havent touched it since ShB yet so i cant speak on that one...

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

Goes back to what i often say about rdps being what ppl are arguing over for "balance" DNC imo should do the less personal, but if synergized with provide much more rdps. Tho i could argue that with curing waltz and improv, they shouldnt over shadow a more oure dps, hardest oart about balance is the usefullness of utility vs dps loss. CW doesnt FEEL all that powerful imo

I barely actually play rdm cept for giggles, and havent touched it since ShB yet so i cant speak on that one...

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RDM is fun haha, It is pretty weak though also overall, its Still the Prog mage meme realistically with its very little contribution after Progression.

I was looking at maybe seeing to a more complex Job, but it seems to be one extreme or another :P, most jobs Dont seem much more complex apart from a few which are on the other extreme which is so difficult it looks like it'd be hell to try do in a Raid Scenerio.

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Originally Posted by CrashofZenki

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Part of me agrees with you, but don't you think jobs should be balanced by their performance when played to their highest potential? If one job is more difficult than the others but performs markedly better when executed perfectly, it will become meta. MMOs aren't fighting games - the difficulty isn't all wrapped up in execution. I think it's short sighted (and probably impossible) to balance jobs based on average level of play. The average aptitude of the playerbase as a whole probably increases over the life of an expansion as people improve and less dedicated players leave the game, so classes balanced that way would need constant reworking (this is just a theory, I have no numbers to support this).

Just my 2 cents. NIN definitely needs a buff, I just think the design philosophy should aim to equalize jobs based on optimal performance.

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Originally Posted by osutin

Part of me agrees with you, but don't you think jobs should be balanced by their performance when played to their highest potential? If one job is more difficult than the others but performs markedly better when executed perfectly, it will become meta. MMOs aren't fighting games - the difficulty isn't all wrapped up in execution. I think it's short sighted (and probably impossible) to balance jobs based on average level of play. The average aptitude of the playerbase as a whole probably increases over the life of an expansion as people improve and less dedicated players leave the game, so classes balanced that way would need constant reworking (this is just a theory, I have no numbers to support this).

Just my 2 cents. NIN definitely needs a buff, I just think the design philosophy should aim to equalize jobs based on optimal performance.

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People will chase the highest DPS. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

u could argue this with every Job.

What about Dancer and RDM Which sits at the bottom of the DPS List due to Utility they bring and more?.. u cant just gut out Utility for Pure DPSers because of this. Raiding is about Being Apart of a party aiming to achieve high performance. you cannot Just remove this from a game for one job because of these reasons and not do it across the board and we'll slowly reach a point of everyone being a Pure DPS.

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1. Argue what, exactly?
2. I've said DNC and RDM need buffs, as does anyone below where we want to set max rDPS for current gear in current fights, just as much as anyone above that point should be nerfed to said point (again, with faint differences according to other attractors in the given job). I'm just not going to suggest sticking the added rDPS arbitrarily into their respective raid buffs, when the fun of the jobs could be better improved by buffs elsewhere in the kit.
3. I've not suggested gutting utility and turning utility jobs into pure DPSers. That's your "remove TA" shtick. I just want Brotherhood and Embolden to apply to both magical and physical damage or be replaced with something different if it comes down to that.
4. I agree, which is why I don't want utility removed.

It will most likely be like pvp where each weapon skill becomes a different mudra

Huton will be odd to implement unless its just a flat trait

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Originally Posted by Duskane

It will most likely be like pvp where each weapon skill becomes a different mudra

Huton will be odd to implement unless its just a flat trait

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I really hope not, they said doingn
the combinations of mudra was kinda part of the feel. And they even said putting together mudras will stay. Honestly, i would have said just make it to where weapon skills dont make it fail anymore

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

*looks around the forum*

*looks at Camera*

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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for discussing changes in playflow, just not based on bad facts. If more NIN players would absolutely find NIN more enjoyable without TA than with it, and the raiding as a whole wouldn't suffer too much for its loss, then that's that. I just don't want that decision to be made on the false idea that TA is inherently overpowered or unable to be balanced, when it's not.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

The playstyle of putting together mudra will remain

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...this is the main thing that needs to go. Hitting 5 buttons to do 1 action is still going to be clunky even when spread over several gcds. It's not like there's that many gcds in our rotation to accomodate this. Hell, openers would be completely unchanged by this.


Just give us the 1-button actions already.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

...this is the main thing that needs to go. Hitting 5 buttons to do 1 action is still going to be clunky even when spread over several gcds. It's not like there's that many gcds in our rotation to accomodate this. Hell, openers would be completely unchanged by this.


Just give us the 1-button actions already.

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Please no. I really like the complex actions and feel of hand signing. It needs to be streamlined sure, to prevent as much clipping issues. but turning everything into single buttons is something i am highly opposed to.