I just had an enlightenment regarding Healers in Shadowbringers

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yeah, I screwed up the math on that initial Miasma II thought it was 6 ticks instead of 8 for some reason.

However, all of this math and theorycrafting you did assumes you're playing at max rank and not synced down into any content which is what I addressed also. Late game will be fine, but pre- lvl 54 is going to suck. You seemed to conveniently ignore all of that topic.

Just like what happened in SB when they changed a bunch of skills and didn't re-do any of the lower content. MCH and DRK were clunky as all hell pre-70 and still are to this day.

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An extra 60 potency would not have proven my point wrong. You only out damage the shb rotation if you use your aetherflow. So the loss of potency is nowhere near as bad as you seem to think it is.

And so? It's a given that while leveling you will not have your full toolkit therefore there will be some clunkyness. Its already dull and boring content to begin with regardless of how much damage your spells do or how many buttons you press. While your numbers are gonna be lower pre bio II, the extra potency on Bio II (an extra 25 potency per tick for 250 extra total potency) makes up for the difference. Not as much as you'd like but it's still extra damage. And the extra Ruin casts would still close the damage gap more.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Would be understandable if so many mess ups didn't result in one shot deaths. But SE relies on those too much IMHO

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I agree! I'm glad someone else has said it!

This all plays into encounter design. SE has trouble challenging us by simply doing damage because we all abuse how scripted everything is. Rather than make everything more dynamic, they introduced a lot of one-shot mechanics. Keeping it scripted makes it easier to program, easier to balance, and more accessible overall since winning a fight is based more on memorization than a player's moment-to-moment decisions.

It makes it more accessible while also making it feel harder to the player because of things coming out of nowhere and-- "whoops, I died."

It's very manipulative game design.

Healers can be balanced better when they abandon this design model.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

In this regard the developers took absolutely, 100% the laziest way out they could.

Instead of balancing the two fairies and giving them more of an identity (Selene the buff or debuff fairy?) They just made her a reskin of Eos.

That would be like telling Summoners, "Well, Titan is useless now so it's going to be a reskin of Ifrit. You get a melee pet and a ranged pet in Garuda. Hope you like it!"

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no, they made the healers darn near perfect. you just want something to black knight and cry about. you arent a dev dont act like one. play the class and the new content first and see how it flows. right now this tiny vocal niche community is out of hand about things beyond their limited knowledge and understanding

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Originally Posted by guardin

no, they made the healers darn near perfect. you just want something to black knight and cry about. you arent a dev dont act like one. play the class and the new content first and see how it flows. right now this tiny vocal niche community is out of hand about things beyond their limited knowledge and understanding

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Were you here for Stormblood's launch? Because this excuse is rather tired. We have tooltips, we have ACTUAL COMBAT EXPERIENCE for some people, but that's just not enough. Except we figured out issues for Stormblood with less information (Did we have something like the Titania fight back before Stormblood even?) and yet healers as a whole were absolutely right on numerous issues. Healers as a whole are not people guessing about things. We are capable of actually thinking about changes and making informed opinions based on what we have.

Another interesting observation I've noticed is the fact that while healers had their aoe rotations nerfed, it also came alongside the fact that dps and tanks had their aoe rotations improved. While a certain someone here would cry "Double Standards" at this, it honestly makes sense to me that if healers are meant to be the role who's supposed do the least damage that they also wouldn't be the best at aoeing either.

Healers had AoE rotations?

j/k. I suppose that, at the very least, Scholar did.
But I don't agree with the removal of the actions being justified, due to trying to make them "not the best at aoeing." They were never the best. They were just better than those who totally lacked fundamental AOE capability. It's part of what would make Scholar unique, at least amongst the healers.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Healers had AoE rotations?

j/k. I suppose that, at the very least, Scholar did.
But I don't agree with the removal of the actions being justified, due to trying to make them "not the best at aoeing." They were never the best. They were just better than those who totally lacked fundamental AOE capability. It's part of what would make Scholar unique, at least amongst the healers.

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Eh, you could argue ARR WHM was the best at AoE damage at the time. As it stands, my issue is less the changing of our AoEs and more the fact that they made SCH and WHM even less interesting than it was before, while giving every other job new AoE stuff, if I am remembering correctly. Maybe not SAM.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Another interesting observation I've noticed is the fact that while healers had their aoe rotations nerfed, it also came alongside the fact that dps and tanks had their aoe rotations improved. While a certain someone here would cry "Double Standards" at this, it honestly makes sense to me that if healers are meant to be the role who's supposed do the least damage that they also wouldn't be the best at aoeing either.

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Healers were never the best at aoe trash pulls. They were better than dps who refused to use their own aoe properly. Unless spamming 140 potency Holy and 100 potency Miasma 2 is somehow better than every other aoe the DPS has.

And yeah, I'll call a double standard out when I see it because you love to say what "should be". Tanks have traditionally been low damage just like healers are but the same rules don't apply to them.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Healers were never the best at aoe trash pulls. They were better than dps who refused to use their own aoe properly. Unless spamming 140 potency Holy and 100 potency Miasma 2 is somehow better than every other aoe the DPS has.

And yeah, I'll call a double standard out when I see it because you love to say what "should be". Tanks have traditionally been low damage just like healers are but the same rules don't apply to them.

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Double standard this double standard that, I get it you arent happy with the changes but unfortunately the developers have a specific idea in mind and its too soon for the feedback about it to be reliable.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Healers were never the best at aoe trash pulls. They were better than dps who refused to use their own aoe properly. Unless spamming 140 potency Holy and 100 potency Miasma 2 is somehow better than every other aoe the DPS has.

And yeah, I'll call a double standard out when I see it because you love to say what "should be". Tanks have traditionally been low damage just like healers are but the same rules don't apply to them.

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Ignore this Brandedblade guy, he has started spouting nonsense in an attempt to "argue" a baseless point, he is annoying to read, instead of acknowledging points he just ignores them and says "you are just complaining". Deceptus is not the one giving evidenceless points and has always made wonderful arguements toward why the new healers won't feel enjoyable this expansion, as someone else who has played years of healer on FF I relate strongly to her points.