Post mortem on relics from 4.0

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Originally Posted by Xau

i hope what if they do make the next relic, they make a "weekly" cap or something for turn in stuff like that to make everyone just not burn themselves on hardcore farming it, because that is one thing a lot of people suffered from on both arr and hw relics, they whanted their relic as soon as posible what they grinded it hard to the point to burn themselves

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Problem with putting things around a weekly cap is that you wind up with hardcore players getting it done on reset day and getting bored or more casual players that lag behind because they didn't meet the cap getting frustrated and becoming almost as disinterested as they likely are with Eureka. While it can be seen as a bad thing either way, it's usually better to not opt for a weekly cap since players would much rather have the feeling of control and not frustrate themselves over worrying about a deadline every week.

As for the SB relics, I agree with the idea that it's not worth the time and effort slogging through Eureka. I'm a bit disappointed that I'd miss out on the story content from it, but I have no problem having people spoil that storyline if it means not having to waste my time in there.

One important thing that I feel hasnt been mentioned yet is how the ARR and HW allowed you to progress together with your friends and FC-mates easly - and how Eureka actually takes steps to prevent that, since it offers no level synch and no "overlap" of stages. It also is extremly solo-unfriendly, while older relics were something you could do during times your friends werent around.
For previous relics it was no problem to switch between solo and group play - for Eureka...

Just to illustrate this a bit: my boyfriend and I are playing this together and are currently trying to somehow get through Pagos (we quit over that). Yesterday an FC-mate asked if anyone wanted to join them for their weekly challenge log - and I basically had to say "I cant, because it would uneven the level between me and my boyfriend to much". For previous relics it wouldnt have been a problem to help them with some dungeon-runs or whatever - but for Eureka, at least for the leveling part, you're locked to your initial group - or you have to play solo.

You also cant overlap your progress - for previous relics you could join a friend for dungeon-runs they needed for a specific step, even if you didnt need them and still make progress of your own, by collecting tomestones (needed for the relic) or maybe even light (again... progress for your relic).
You could play together with people at different points in the relic-quest and all of you would make some progress towards your end-goal.
Eureka? No chance.
We have people in the FC who are just getting into Anemos and sure I could join them (oh wait, I cant - no level synch... I guess I could stand next to them and heal them without being in a party), but I wouldnt get anything for myself done there.

Relic content for me used to be (amongst other things) this very flexible content that allowed you to switch between solo-play and group-play depending on who was around and what you personally felt like doing. Even if you progressed your relic, you could still play together with your friends without hindering them in their progress and at the same time you could most likely still make some progress of your own.
I miss that. Currently I cant play Eureka with my friends because we're all at different levels. I cant even play Eureka solo, because that would mess up the last "at-the-same-level"-relationship I have.

Past Relics had relevance at least. Part of the problem (aside from Eureka for many) was how late Relic was introduced and future updates to it.
It was pure glam from the beginning, nothing else.
What i liked in past Relics is you could progress on your own for a large part of it so the Relic felt more personal in a sense which is how Relics should be.
Yes Atma was the worst but Eureka i just did the first few steps and got absolutely bored of it.
I guess because so much content is this game has been tied to fates and at the very least the beginning of Eureka was basically fate jumping, yeah i said the hell with it.

Past relics had fates interspersed with other activities like dungeons and trials. Eureka is fates interspersed with mob grinding.

It's nice to see SE making content with expiration date when the old relics are still doable either solo or in company, Eureka isn't money thrown to the trash, at all. /s

I don't know what crossed their mind when they decided to make content with expiration date that won't be doable in the future (alone, like the old content, and no, need 26 people to kill a boss Fate isn't be able to do it alone). Any kind of savage is still relevant today if the glamours are good (Like Midas and Alexander, and everyone can do them easily nowadays), but Eureka has an expiration date and it's money and time thrown to the trash.

Eureka is the worst content ever released for the game, not only because the design is awful, but because it won't be doable -casually- in the future (no one is going to be able to go alone and grind what is needed to go from 1 to 60 + all the bs in between), content with expiration date is the worst SE could ever make.

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Originally Posted by PortalScience

There have been many posts about eureka as its own experience, but I would like to take the time and look at eureka as a relic experience. 4.0 made the choice to make the relics bound to eureka, and this really feels like a step backwards from previous relics.


On top of this, Eureka is an instance, which means none of the weapon grinding can be done at the same time as other tasks (such as running leves or killing monsters while waiting on your FC). This also completely disables the interest/viability of doing later relics, as Eureka will become less and less popular over time. In contrast, 2.0/3.0 used the relics to revitalize old content (crystal tower was basically dead before the existence of aether oil).

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Content isn't at a place where it needs to be revitalized in the same degree anymore. Queues aren't as bad as they were in previous expansions and with squadrons, unsynch, HoH, PoTD, PVP, WT, Roulettes, etc we have many ways to keep content going. Add in trust npcs in 5.0 and the newer content will also not suffer from this issue. I disagree with this being a valid argument anymore. This was the case in 2.x and 3.x when the game didn't have enough content but not the case now. Another thing is the devs have always been aware of the need to revitalize old content and have taken steps to incentivize it. I am more than 100% convinced that in 5.0 they'll take measure to make sure the relic is obtainable from Eureka even in 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

Eureka is the worst content ever released for the game, not only because the design is awful, but because it won't be doable -casually- in the future (no one is going to be able to go alone and grind what is needed to go from 1 to 60 + all the bs in between), content with expiration date is the worst SE could ever make.

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This is my biggest issue with it. Unless it's nerfed HEAVILY, it is extremely unfriendly to solo, which is pretty much what you have to do on older relic content.

hmm. i dont know. i actually like the idea of Eureka. i think there needs to be more in it, to make it better. but an area that plays with a different focus from the rest of the game was very refreshing to me, and i enjoy it when im up for it.

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Originally Posted by jadan2000

hmm. i dont know. i actually like the idea of Eureka. i think there needs to be more in it, to make it better. but an area that plays with a different focus from the rest of the game was very refreshing to me, and i enjoy it when im up for it.

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The problem with Eureka['s idea] is it has already been tried thrice now. How many more times will it take before they get it right, assuming they ever will?

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Originally Posted by Xau

i hope what if they do make the next relic, they make a "weekly" cap or something for turn in stuff like that to make everyone just not burn themselves on hardcore farming it, because that is one thing a lot of people suffered from on both arr and hw relics, they whanted their relic as soon as posible what they grinded it hard to the point to burn themselves

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I don't mind if there is an option to simply burn through a relic step, but one of my main issues with Eureka, and the 'light' farm step of previous relics, is that the optimal path (reward/time) is to just 'grind it out'. I much prefer the steps where one of the hand-ins is tomestones, or the ones with daily / weekly quests, as this lets you progress over time with little additional effort to your daily play and adds value to roulettes like levelling (at cap) and MSQ, PvP, etc. (or you could just grind ARF until your eyes bleed).