Thread: Post mortem on relics from 4.0

There have been many posts about eureka as its own experience, but I would like to take the time and look at eureka as a relic experience. 4.0 made the choice to make the relics bound to eureka, and this really feels like a step backwards from previous relics.

The role of the relic:
Relic weapons have always been a top tier item released significantly later than the savage weapon counterparts, as a slower, but easier alternative to the ultimate endgame gear. They fill the role of casual endgame, for people that play a lot, but don't necessarily want to do the hardest content (although they can always do both). To make up for this, they have their own story and are treated as special items, particularly unique in glamour and glow.

Weapon story:
We have drastically changed the story of the relics, in 2.0/3.0, the weapons themselves have a history, or a soul. In Eureka, the location has a story, and the weapons are an afterthought tonally. In some zones you literally cannot make progress on your weapon until you have progressed the zone itself (Pagos). In almost all Eureka zones, the most lore about the weapon is a single paragraph from Gerolt saying "sure I will upgrade that". Regardless about personal opinions on whether the Eureka story is good or bad, it is not a story about the weapon, and the weapon is not made the focus.

Gameplay of the grind:
Prior to Eureka, the relics are split into different sections per patch, where the relic can eventually be caught up to the current savage gear (which never happened in Stormblood due to release timings of Eureka). Each of these sections is a different type of grind. In ARR, there was primal fighting, fetch questing, crafting, dungeons, maps, fate grinding, light grinding, levequests, monster hunting, tomestone purchases. In HW, there was dungeons, 24mans, fates, primal fighting, weekly quests, crafting turn ins, maps, light grinding, tomestone purchases, GC purchases, levequests. In SB, every section is feels the same. Anemos was NM grinding. Pagos was NM grinding followed by light farming. Pyros was NM grinding + bunny fates, followed by light farming. There have been a total of 3 mechanics in the first 75% of the Eureka relic, and the are repeated with no variety of what can be done. On top of this, Eureka is an instance, which means none of the weapon grinding can be done at the same time as other tasks (such as running leves or killing monsters while waiting on your FC). This also completely disables the interest/viability of doing later relics, as Eureka will become less and less popular over time. In contrast, 2.0/3.0 used the relics to revitalize old content (crystal tower was basically dead before the existence of aether oil).

Visual appearance:
The glamour aspect of relics is one of the parts that was least harmed by 4.0. Like before, there are effectively 3 base glamours, with special glow effects being added in later stages. However, it is notable that 2.0/3.0 had very personalized effects for each weapon, whereas the general shape and glows available in Eureka are not significantly different for each class, which cheapens the "special item" feel that relics typically have.

Level skip:
The level skip in 3.0 was actually a very nice touch to make it seem like there was a contiguous story between the relics. SE has expressed some concern about the time skip, but as someone who did ALL the 2.0/3.0 relics, and therefore had to do the first portion 3 times, it wasn't significant of a time-saver. This would be a good idea to bring back for 5.0 (but again, keep the skip content short).

I'm going to have to disagree with regards to seeing the level skip implemented again for 5.0

This isn't because I don't like the idea, far from it, I think it's a nice nod to people who have completed previous weapons to get a head start, and I recall being really jealous of those who had the 2.0 relic while working on Heavensward (I wasn't playing through all of 2.0, so I had to do my 3.0 relic by grinding fates to start with) BUT Eureka has turned off many players from completing the relic. For example, in my static raid group, every single one of us last expansion had our relic weapon by the time it was done, and we did use it initially to progress on early tiers. But this time around, only one person in our group has it. I don't know if that trend is consistent across all players, but if only 1-2 in 8 players did the Eureka quests to completion, that means the vast majority of players won't be able to take advantage of this step in 5.0. This won't be because they didn't want relics, as I said before my normal play group had all of us complete them by the end of Heavensward, but because Eureka was content that really turned us all away.

Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm going to have to disagree with regards to seeing the level skip implemented again for 5.0

This isn't because I don't like the idea, far from it, I think it's a nice nod to people who have completed previous weapons to get a head start, and I recall being really jealous of those who had the 2.0 relic while working on Heavensward (I wasn't playing through all of 2.0, so I had to do my 3.0 relic by grinding fates to start with) BUT Eureka has turned off many players from completing the relic. For example, in my static raid group, every single one of us last expansion had our relic weapon by the time it was done, and we did use it initially to progress on early tiers. But this time around, only one person in our group has it. I don't know if that trend is consistent across all players, but if only 1-2 in 8 players did the Eureka quests to completion, that means the vast majority of players won't be able to take advantage of this step in 5.0. This won't be because they didn't want relics, as I said before my normal play group had all of us complete them by the end of Heavensward, but because Eureka was content that really turned us all away.

Honestly, I was more thinking it would be a turn in of the luxes, as that it is a true continuation of the relic weapon. Nothing about the Eureka weapon feels relic-y. If they did pick the Eureka weapon, at least it would be a small consolation prize to get something from it. Again, I am thinking from a lore perspective. I helped tons of FC mates do their first step in HW, so skipping one of my many relics isn't a huge deal time wise.

Originally Posted by Haxaan

This was literally the easiest relic to get, it just took time. No one said you had to spend 8 hours a day in Eureka... of course it's going to be a grind.

There are people who are already 60 lol.

My disinterest in 4.0 relic grind wasn't only due to not having interest in the content, but also due to reward vs time spent. It just wasn't worth it to me, plus I wanted to try a new way of grinding out a BiS weapon. But the saddest thing to me is the fact that you cannot progress the relic whilst during normal activities such as running dungeons, trials, raids, roulettes, crafting, and all other methods previously made available in the earlier expansions. It makes me worry about those who wish to pursue a 4.0 relic, or want to finish theirs off when 5.0 comes out. If Eureka dies, so does the relic. And I'd feel quite safe wagering that this was a massive oversight from the dev team.

Then there is the matter of relics are essentially glamour, and there are other ways to obtain glowy weapons that are very relic-like. Some even better than the relics themselves depending on what kind of glow and weapon design you prefer. If the 4.0 relic was not locked behind Eureka, but instead you can run Eureka as an optional means to progress it, I feel that would have been a much better decision while also incentivizing this content.

I hope the devs learned from this going into 5.0, because this decision was indeed a poor one.

I think the "first step skip" should be there for the people that one it. Also it makes it seem like you are a continually upgrading the same weapon doing that. However I traded 2 of my 2.0 relics for a head start ont eh 3.0 ones and later wished I hadn't. Felt like I died a little inside when I traded them, or like I had been kicked in the balls. I could trade the Eureka relic... what I have of it anyway... in a heartbeat tho.

I think they should go back to the old way of doing the relic. Wonderous Tails isn't enough to keep the old content alive like the Relic could. Tho in all honestly I would like to see some more "personal" content for the relic. Like semi challenging solo instances to power up your weapon after you've collected stuff. And more story to the weapons.