Bring back the old sub job system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

Except that's wrong. FFXIV never had a sub-job system. It had a cross-class system. If they sound different, it's better to assume they ARE different than to assume that the original poster doesn't know what they are talking about.

That being said, the original poster could have written it more clearly, yes.

---

Not really "could have" - should have. Not all of us have played FFV or Tactics, so we don't know what sub-job system they're even referring to. Our only experience with anything like that may just be the old cross-role system. The wording of the entire OP is vague and misleading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selvokaz

its time for a change, the formula has become old and stale, people are craving for the game to shake it up a little.

---

I used to think this way, until the game I liked was ripped out from under me, and then as I was just about getting used to the new approach and liking it, that game changed to something else I didn't like. Why did it happen? Because they devs became enamored with the idea of change for the sake of change to try and keep the flighty interest of modern gamers and ended up throwing out the good as often as they did the bad (they also had to devote a lot more time to developing it before each expansion, which meant much longer delays than we see here, which ain't great).

So yeah...be careful what you wish for, it could actively kill the game for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selvokaz

its time for a change, the formula has become old and stale, people are craving for the game to shake it up a little. Class balance tweaks aren't cutting it anymore, waiting for new dungeons to grind isn't as interesting as it once was. The game was exciting when it felt like there was new discoveries to be found, both in the world and its mechanics. The game felt more alive people were trying new things, new ideas, well the subclass system change that, maybe.. somewhat.

---

Before that happens they'll ruin the classes like they did in pvp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Not really "could have" - should have.

---

Sorry, but when someone talks to me about something beyond my understanding, like quantum physics, I don't assume that what he's saying is part of a simpler concept I know from the same type (physics or math in this examples case). I either ask him to elaborate or look it up.

Sub-jobs didn't exist in FFXIV. It may be a new term, yes. And it would simplify a lot if the original poster elaborated on it, yes. It would also serve their own purpose seeing as without it, many people WILL misunderstand. However, it's the posters choice to assume that an unfamiliar term is something else than what it is. A quick search on google will show you what a sub-job system is.

I'm just nitpicking here. And even that because Bourne_Endeavor writing "Why didn't you specify that then?" was pretty hostile, despite being equally 'guilty' of being 'lazy' in their post (OP not elaborating, Bourne_Endeavor assuming instead of doing research). If that was written along the lines of "I think you should specify that in the original post." or the like, I wouldn't even bother, really.

Hellluuuuuu

Ugh... If there is to be anything like the a sub-job system it would have to be with jobs that would not affect the combat classes/jobs, but instead would add cooldowns ant traits for things like hunt tracking or treasure hunting and just basic QOL stuff instead of what would basically just over encumbering players who use the crossbar set-up with excessive actions. It just be way easier and overrall just way more beneficial for players to implement the optional trait system or just the learning aspect from from FFIX but leave all of the job/class specific trait alone and as just their own thing. Way better than like having having sub-classes that are just completely useless outside of being a sub-class and being totally bummed out because it's like your favorite job, IMHO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPNZ

Ugh... If there is to be anything like the a sub-job system it would have to be with jobs that would not affect the combat classes/jobs(...)

---

This game discourages the built-in macro. Like...it actually penalizes the player for using it. If it did not, any player could easily shave off several buttons off of their hotbars. Even healers which don't have combos of any sort. Targeting a player?! Heal. Targeting an enemy?! Attack. If they added utilities to macro, it could even work with AoE heals that normally don't need a target and would work even when targeting an enemy (if the player wants, of course).

That doesn't really change much on this topic though. I am still against such an overhaul in any game. It's part of design that should be made at games start and held on to.

The Logos system they are adding to the 3rd area of Eureka is as close to a subjob/class system we are probably going to get. Something like a dps being able to tank or something like that. It's probably not going to have the depth of a single player game though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

This game discourages the built-in macro. Like...it actually penalizes the player for using it. If it did not, any player could easily shave off several buttons off of their hotbars. Even healers which don't have combos of any sort. Targeting a player?! Heal. Targeting an enemy?! Attack. If they added utilities to macro, it could even work with AoE heals that normally don't need a target and would work even when targeting an enemy (if the player wants, of course).

That doesn't really change much on this topic though. I am still against such an overhaul in any game. It's part of design that should be made at games start and held on to.

---

The built in macro's are unusable for casters since the GCD can be variable but the macro doesn't deal with variable timing.

The only overhaul I really want to see is Yoshi-P actually looking at why people picked certain role actions... did they pick them because it restored their kit, or did they pick them because that was the BiS meta, or did they pick them at random? Like the previous cross class had something going for it, had they not introduced the job crystals. Wizardry Online was heading in the cross-class direction, and it's current status (shutdown) is a pretty clear indication that was not going to be a good thing. That and permadeath P2W probably what kept less-than-hardcore players from it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

Sorry, but when someone talks to me about something beyond my understanding, like quantum physics, I don't assume that what he's saying is part of a simpler concept I know from the same type (physics or math in this examples case). I either ask him to elaborate or look it up.

Sub-jobs didn't exist in FFXIV. It may be a new term, yes. And it would simplify a lot if the original poster elaborated on it, yes. It would also serve their own purpose seeing as without it, many people WILL misunderstand. However, it's the posters choice to assume that an unfamiliar term is something else than what it is. A quick search on google will show you what a sub-job system is.

I'm just nitpicking here. And even that because Bourne_Endeavor writing "Why didn't you specify that then?" was pretty hostile, despite being equally 'guilty' of being 'lazy' in their post (OP not elaborating, Bourne_Endeavor assuming instead of doing research). If that was written along the lines of "I think you should specify that in the original post." or the like, I wouldn't even bother, really.

---

Except the title of the thread is "Bring back the old sub job system", insinuating the cross-class system FFXIV used to have as it's never had any other variant of a similar system. Aside from this being the FFXIV forums, and systems are called various things by various other people, correct name or not. As I said, not everyone has experience with FFV or FFTactics, so they infer the OP is talking about the cross-class system since no specification was given.

Posting such a title followed by a vague opening post that elaborates on nothing doesn't help anything. Neither does being unnecessarily nit-picky.

If you present an idea, you do so clearly. Not vaguely. You don't blame the audience for not understanding when you didn't even bother to clarify or elaborate. But that's just my opinion.