Now that we know SE is listening, here's how to "fix" Pagos.

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Now that we know SE is listening (...)

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I know I'm being cynical here, but what makes you say they are?

I mean, other than what was mentioned as a "footnote" on this recent hotfix:

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Regarding "The Forbidden Land, Eureka Pagos", adjustments will continue to be implemented in gradual order, through next week and beyond.

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There was no official statement in neither Lodestone nor the Official Boards.

Hell, no member from the development team or even a representative made any further comments/assurances about it.

Also, "gradual order" (like say: once per week, tops) doesn't really inspire me with much confidence about Eureka as a whole (and Pagos in particular).
Especially considering that such problems could've been solved with the feedback received from Anemos back in the development/testing/implementation stages...

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

I know I'm being cynical here, but what makes you say they are?

I mean, other than what was mentioned as a "footnote" on this recent hotfix:

There was no official statement in neither Lodestone nor the Official Boards. Hell, not a member from the development team or even a representative made any further comments/assurances.

Also, "gradual order" (like say: once per week, tops) doesn't really inspire me with much confidence about Eureka as a whole (and Pagos in particular).
Especially considering that such problems could've been solved with the feedback received from Anemos back in the development/testing/implemtation stages...

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I don't believe that "footnote" would have been there if they were not paying attention to the massive backlash that happened this week. Do I know they are listening? No, I can't 100% know that. But do I think they are? Yes. Otherwise there would be no need to make adjustments from their perspective.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The reason a minority complained in Anemos. On the mentioning of previous relic steps, not a single one was at this level of horrible. I've played FFXI, chain grinding wasn't bad there because the battle system allowed it to work. You didn't press a button every 2.5s, and it took a while longer for the bonus chain to go out to compensate for the slower play. Due to this, you could socialize, joke, and do other things while battle was in play, things you cannot do while in battle in FFXIV. Chain grinding as a primary exp source cannot work in FFXIV due to how much faster the gameplay is.

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We all have equally horrible anecdotal evidence that support our contrasting opinions. But to to back to the original point: it doesn't change that what is being asked for is basically Anemos all over again, just because Pagos feels worse. Data was also reviewed in Anemos and Anemos also had a considerable better exp gain than the train. The train was simply more convenient because <insert excuse>.

We're asking again for the same things and currently, Anemos is much more bearable than before. Maybe wait until Pagos gets the 2x Exp buff Anemos has and then see if the carrot is worth it for you then?

I'm not defending Pagos, but I am sure not gonna ask it to be nerfed to the ground because: it's be worthless in x weeks (here's a secret, Anemos was worthless too) or <insert gameplay tangent>.

The only points I can find common ground in is how this should've come out earlier than this and that dying and losing 25%+ exp is silly.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

Normally I’d agree with this. Except the Relic isn’t the issue here. It’s the asinine leveling system gating it. It isn’t grindy, leveling and chaining enemies 6 levels higher than you to do the story content in Pagos is grindy. I would take Atma and books back over this. At least then, I could complain about the RELIC itself, and not the content it’s gated behind.

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Well, the gating is the grind. 25 gives your the light farm and you have to grind kills for a light farm that is also available via NMs and we're back to square one (since you farm "light" while you level). I understand where you come from, but the majority of the rebuttals are talking about the relic because its the carrot/reward.

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Originally Posted by Lumis_Arvalo

I don't believe that "footnote" would have been there if they were not paying attention to the massive backlash that happened this week. Do I know they are listening? No, I can't 100% know that. But do I think they are? Yes. Otherwise there would be no need to make adjustments from their perspective.

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The changes could also be adjustment followed by the performance of those two fates was low because: no exp/light and they only server as an RNG gate for an RNG reward.

I’m sorry did I miss something??? Where did we get confirmation SE was listening??? Pleaee let’s get that out of the way first because I must have missed it.

They can tweak values like NM spawn rates, exp per mob, and reduce/remove the exp penalty, but they can't "fix" Pagos at this point. The whole of Eureka up to now is fundamentally flawed. It's nothing more than a zone to grind mobs in so you can level up to have higher raw stats to grind higher level mobs so you can level up more. That's it. You don't get magicite to enhance your character in a meaningful or interesting way; you just get a defense of attack boost if you rock-paper-scissors the elements right. Eureka, much like Diadem, is creatively bankrupt. Unless they can develop content that is more meaningful and creative than "grind mobs to level up to grind mobs" as a end-game max level activity, then there's no way they can actually fix it for any reasonable person.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

They can tweak values like NM spawn rates, exp per mob, and reduce/remove the exp penalty, but they can't "fix" Pagos at this point. The whole of Eureka up to now is fundamentally flawed. It's nothing more than a zone to grind mobs in so you can level up to have higher raw stats to grind higher level mobs so you can level up more. That's it. You don't get magicite to enhance your character in a meaningful or interesting way; you just get a defense of attack boost if you rock-paper-scissors the elements right. Eureka, much like Diadem, is creatively bankrupt. Unless they can develop content that is more meaningful and creative than "grind mobs to level up to grind mobs" as a end-game max level activity, then there's no way they can actually fix it for any reasonable person.

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You can't "fix" it, no. But the truth of the matter is that Eureka is remaining, and it's going to remain tied to the relic. That cannot and will not change. The changes that are being asked for are to make it bearable for those of us who want our relics, not to make it into the next and best zany bit of content in the game. That ship sailed, but for as long as something we want remains tied to it, we'll continue to push for whatever minor adjustments we can get.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Well, the gating is the grind. 25 gives your the light farm and you have to grind kills for a light farm that is also available via NMs and we're back to square one (since you farm "light" while you level). I understand where you come from, but the majority of the rebuttals are talking about the relic because its the carrot/reward.

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While I agree with your other points, in terms of relic grind, I disagree. The light grind, and Louhi are the relic grind. The useless bloat 5 levels before even STARTING relic, is not the relic grind. If they had let us start from 20, and work through the levels, I’d be less inclined to complain.

But they didn’t. They gapped it until 25, and then 29, and then 35 to keep people in this content as long as possible until 4.4. I hit 30 in less than 4 days of really trying. I still hate the content, it is probably the one and only true time I’d actually call anything in this game garbage content, and I rarely complain about what they put out.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

While I agree with your other points, in terms of relic grind, I disagree. The light grind, and Louhi are the relic grind. The useless bloat 5 levels before even STARTING relic, is not the relic grind. If they had let us start from 20, and work through the levels, I’d be less inclined to complain.

But they didn’t. They gapped it until 25, and then 29, and then 35 to keep people in this content as long as possible until 4.4. I hit 30 in less than 4 days of really trying. I still hate the content, it is probably the one and only true time I’d actually call anything in this game garbage content, and I rarely complain about what they put out.

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Agreed and we know why they did it. Subs. I'm 27 and not exactly pushing because I know how most people are too antsy (I am too at times due to limited game time) I agree with you on the light farm not being available from the start is silly, yet I also know it is like that by design. However, I'm not gonna beg for it to be "nerfed Anemos" off the bat like some have.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

You can't "fix" it, no. But the truth of the matter is that Eureka is remaining, and it's going to remain tied to the relic. That cannot and will not change. The changes that are being asked for are to make it bearable for those of us who want our relics, not to make it into the next and best zany bit of content in the game. That ship sailed, but for as long as something we want remains tied to it, we'll continue to push for whatever minor adjustments we can get.

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Please post the link where they stated Relic is permanently a Eureka thing. Because as far as I’m aware, it’s not except for the remainder of SB.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

Please post the link where they stated Relic is permanently a Eureka thing. Because as far as I’m aware, it’s not except for the remainder of SB.

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My apologies & clarification: I did only mean SB, but the SB relic is going to stay tied to Eureka. If you want the SB relic, as I do, then you'll need to slog through Eureka. It's trash, but at least we can make it bearable until they (had better) change it for 5.0. I'm not willing to say "it's bad, done", I want at least something done about what we have to suffer through right now.