seems like FF community start to get known

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

A king is a king

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The delusion.

You are the kind of player that gives Tanks a bad name. I mained tank through all of HW and I 100% disagree with basically everything you are saying.

Tanks are not the "boss". They are not a "king". If I encountered you in a dungeon and you disregarded the team in a leveling dungeon because you wanted to look around, I'd push for you to be kicked or I'd just run off without you. Tanks are NOT needed in leveling dungeons, you are not more important than everyone else, and you can look around on your own time. The party is a team, and they are all the decision makers. Stop with this high-and-mighty tank-centric mindset.

There is a reason tanks are known to be selfish and awful players. I suggest you stop, and take a look at how you treat your party members or how you view them compared to yourself. You are nothing more than an equal part of the party.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

The delusion.

You are the kind of player that gives Tanks a bad name. I mained tank through all of HW and I 100% disagree with basically everything you are saying.

Tanks are not the "boss". They are not a "king". If I encountered you in a dungeon and you disregarded the team in a leveling dungeon because you wanted to look around, I'd push for you to be kicked or I'd just run off without you. Tanks are NOT needed in leveling dungeons, you are not more important than everyone else, and you can look around on your own time. The party is a team, and they are all the decision makers. Stop with this high-and-mighty tank-centric mindset.

There is a reason tanks are known to be selfish and awful players. I suggest you stop, and take a look at how you treat your party members or how you view them compared to yourself. You are nothing more than an equal part of the party.

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As a tank main and a selfish and awful player it's my job to aggro enemies not my party members so I tend to defer to diplomacy.. most of the time. Though I will say people like to heap responsibility on to the tank a lot of the time which is why so many people suffer from "tankxiety". So it's understandable why people who main tanks could come to assume they're the leaders of the group because they wind up being put in that spot often.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

A king is a king no matter how bad that king governs.

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Good thing you're not on my datacentre. I can see playstyle differences right there. My rule is: Have specific needs that go against the usual (tank anxiety, not familiar witrh the dungeon as a role, etc), you speak up. Where it isn't something ridiculous (say RPing it) I will accommodate (tank anxiety for example is something I will accommodate, though for that I will also try to gently encourage you most likely). But I cannot know unless you speak up. Most players on Chaos that I've interacted with seem to be the same. We're willing to find a compromise if we know one needs to be made. We might rant after the duty is complete to our FC etc, but for the dungeon we will work with it.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

WoW was unimaginably toxic compared to XIV from the three years or so I spent with it.

It was pretty rare to wipe in a dungeon without having at least one person berating someone else for it, and vote kick was used quite regularly for reasons other then simply getting disconnected.

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My experience over the last 4 or so years was about the opposite.

In the few places where a wipe is possible outside of the most idiotic of circumstances, the ratio of time spent bickering to pulling (since here people seem unaware that you can type whilst auto-running, for whatever reason) has averaged much higher here than on WoW.

What I do see on WoW are many more groups being selective of who they take for a second run, such as from Mythic key to Mythic key; many will give only the simplest of orders, having given up on micromanagement by default, will grit and bear the remainder of the run where possible, and simply won't invite the underperforming players to the next step under the guise of disbandment. They are quicker to ask why someone is doing something, but where rhetorical it's followed quickly by the necessary information or due advice. That latter part rarely seems to follow so often in XIV, and when it is, it's far more often replied to with comments like "I play how I want" (e.g. "You don't pay my sub!").

Both have underperforming players, usually on the basis of underwhelming or inexistent player feedback systems, and where they go into content above their actual effective skill-level, confrontations ensue. But these tend to be more productive (though also more final or exclusive), in my experience, in WoW than in XIV (where players seem a bit more... entitled, to faintly over-simplify).

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

A king is a king no matter how bad that king governs. We're talking about roles, not about how you feel about it. Kings can be given advise but it's ultimately up to them to set the pace.

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When the nation would proceed better without you... you're a dead or exiled king.

The purpose of every party member is simple: to accelerate victory.

A tank's toolkit should best be utilized to that effect, but that does not prohibit less specialized players from participating where at no cost to their contribution in tasks usually associated with those specialized roles.

There's no issue with a Bard gathering mobs to you if you fail to keep pace or click off lingering HoTs in order to face-pull effectively. There's no issue with a RDM using Vercure between fights from a position nearer the next pack than the tank to more quickly accelerate preparedness.

oh, good lord, people please. Let the tank pull as he is comfortable. A tank who small pulls isn't comfortable yet with the instance and may need time to get used to it. if this incenses you so much you need to pull yourself, well its a lot easier to be a tank then to try and pull or tank mobs as a dps. If im healing a run i hate it when the bard pulls mobs to the tank or I have to heal everyone at the same time because dps have no aggro tools to hold a mob and it pingpongs between everyone.

If its a leveling dungeon, people learn in it. they learn the mob placement, the layouts, cooldown timing, etc. if its expert, a lot of times its someone who tanks to give a buddy quick queues or is using his alt tank instead of his main dps. For a game that literally takes barely any time to cap people are way too prissy about how others should act in things.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

oh, good lord, people please. Let the tank pull as he is comfortable. A tank who small pulls isn't comfortable yet with the instance and may need time to get used to it. if this incenses you so much you need to pull yourself, well its a lot easier to be a tank then to try and pull or tank mobs as a dps. If im healing a run i hate it when the bard pulls mobs to the tank or I have to heal everyone at the same time because dps have no aggro tools to hold a mob and it pingpongs between everyone.

If its a leveling dungeon, people learn in it. they learn the mob placement, the layouts, cooldown timing, etc. if its expert, a lot of times its someone who tanks to give a buddy quick queues or is using his alt tank instead of his main dps. For a game that literally takes barely any time to cap people are way too prissy about how others should act in things.

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Neither layouts nor mob placements have any impact unless the tank refuse to use sprint or ranged skills; it's the healer who has to know their exact spawn times, and only if he needs to heal during the gather, which is usually only the case if the tank refuses to use sprint and keep distance using range skills...

Most of these things are learnable within a few current-expansion dungeon runs, so long as the rest of the party is competent and the tank is not excessively timid then either.

Every time I've seen a non-tank pull (or I myself, as a non-tank, have pulled) it's been solely because things would proceed faster for having done so even if the tank remained afk. It is almost excruciatingly difficult to make that the case when tanking (except by going randomly afk).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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I don't know if the introduction of Mythic dungeons changed anything regarding player mentality or not (I stopped playing during the last patch of Cataclysm), but the only times I've had to kick someone in XIV was because they were trolling by trying to tank/heal in a stat-less glam outfit or some nonsense, whereas I had to deal with people getting salty and going on rants over people wiping, messing up at mechanics, doing bad DPS, etc all the time in WoW.

It might just be because it's a lot easier to wipe in WoW dungeons then XIV due to its pulls being balanced around use of crowd control (Whereas XIV opted to make most enemies just flat-out immune to CC like bind/sleep in HW onwards), plus the enemies have much more unpleasant abilities to deal with and kill priority is actually important as a result.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

A king is a king no matter how bad that king governs. We're talking about roles, not about how you feel about it. Kings can be given advise but it's ultimately up to them to set the pace.

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I can imagine that you are one of those players complaining about the toxic FF community.
When reading your post I thought the following.
You will be removed from the Group because of your bad behavior. Then you go to Reddit and complain about the toxic FF community.
I have seen many Tanks like you, thinking they can play stupid games in Dungeons, got kicked from the group. I myself have initiated vote kicks. You are nothing more than a Player of a group of four.

It might just be me and being a slightly older player (as in age; not time spent on the game) but imho the mechanics of ANY dungeon and/or raid come down to 1 simple rule: "Stay alive" and if you manage to do that more and/or better than the enemy does you can stroll through any content. In practical terms that means that

The tank keeps the healer(s) and dps alive by acting like a damage sponge whilst making sure monsters don't go looking for the squisher targets
The healer keeps Tank(s) and dps alive by making sure ouchies get healed
The dps keep the tank(s) and healer(s) alive by making sure monsters don't outlast either the MP of the healer or the HP of the tank.

from the above 3 I can't name a singular role that's more important than the rest.

Together we rise and together we shall fall...