The reason I stay subbed....

SB was 35 EU on digital and on steam, it's not the price of a full game which is more around 50 EU or in some cases 60.

I'm sorry but can we stop this madness? the app feature is bad and the mogcoins are a scam but the comparison to EA and this lie about pricing is overdramatizing which will ONLY lead to the forum not beign listened.
I question the validity of everyone doing this maybe you DON'T want to be heard, because I can tell you this is what will happen if ppl keep using dramatization as a way to spark riots, this is just as bad as politicians stoking the fires to get elected

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

To add to what Callinon said, we're not only going through with the subscription model, we're also purchasing every expansion for what is essentially the price of a new game.

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I'm not really sure what the point was here. Pretty standard practise. Wow charges €45 for their new expansion which is around same what Stomblood went for.

Wow also have a cashshop and monthly sub.

Difference is Wow Legion app isnt behind a paywall. I guess we'll have to see what they do with their new expansion if they drop a new/refreshed app.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Not by yourself of course, but you're an example of it. You're happy to pay and pay and pay just because SE dangles something in front of you regardless of the fact that you're already paying for this. You're what's known as a "whale" in free-to-play markets. And that's fine, but own it. You're paying for a subscription game and then happily shelling out extra cash on top of that. The entire point of the subscription model is that you get the whole package for your subscription.

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I have no idea what a whale is in this context nor going to bother to research it.

Do you think i want to spend money for this?
- No.

Is it going to make me throw in my towel like so many others and unsub?
- Uh nope. I still have a lot of fun and get enjoyment out of my €12,99.

Do i see the value and it justify me to spend money for the premium?
- Yes it does. I can totally benefit from able to use it as a crafter.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

I'm not really sure what the point was here. Pretty standard practise. Wow charges €45 for their new expansion which is around same what Stomblood went for.

Wow also have a cashshop and monthly sub.

Difference is Wow Legion app isnt behind a paywall. I guess we'll have to see what they do with their new expansion if they drop a new/refreshed app.



I have no idea what a whale is in this context nor going to bother to research it.

Do you think i want to spend money for this?
- No.

Is it going to make me throw in my towel like so many others and unsub?
- Uh nope. I still have a lot of fun and get enjoyment out of my €12,99.

Do i see the value and it justify me to spend money for the premium?
- Yes it does. I can totally benefit from able to use it as a crafter.

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Do you like being ripped off? That "premium" you are already paying for when you buy the game, the expansions, and the sub. Do not forget you pay a months fee? SE is trying to change people twice for the same thing, that concept is why I unsubbed because they are only going to push till more blacklash happens in more major media outlets.

Also 1 does not match with 3, if you saw value in it, you want to pay for it then.

Wow does not add shady sub on top of sub, on top of sub fees do they (retainer fee = sub, retainer on top of premium sub, only to access another sub cost)

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I'll even spend the premium price for the features cause they actually will be a great convenience for me as a omnicrafter/gatherer.

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No, you are taking part in Pay to win. (Paying for an advantage that is needed over people only paying base sub) That person calling you a whale is fitting, you wave unlimited amount of money around just to get what you want. It is very damaging to the majority of the playerbase, giving game companies ammo to please a few minority over the majority taxing higher costs where it is not warranted, because those select few have enough money to throw around.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Do you like being ripped off? That "premium" you are already paying for when you buy the game, the expansions, and the sub. Do not forget you pay a months fee? SE is trying to change people twice for the same thing, that concept is why I unsubbed because they are only going to push till more blacklash happens in more major media outlets.

Also 1 does not match with 3, if you saw value in it, you want to pay for it then.

Wow does not add shady sub on top of sub, on top of sub fees do they (retainer fee = sub, retainer on top of premium sub, only to access another sub cost)

No, you are taking part in Pay to win. (Paying for an advantage that is needed over people only paying base sub) That person calling you a whale is fitting, you wave unlimited amount of money around just to get what you want. It is very damaging to the majority of the playerbase, giving game companies ammo to please a few minority over the majority taxing higher costs where it is not warranted, because those select few have enough money to throw around.

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This "pay to win" has been in the game then since the inception of 2.0. If you pay more, you can have 8 chr's per server instead of one, a pay advantage. If you spend 1$ more a month you can get an extra retainer slot for all characters, a pay advantage. If I want to skip the story mode, I can buy a jump potion, pay to win. If I want to skip my level up to 60(?) I can buy a jump potion, pay to win. Why is this all of a sudden so egregious? Why is this such a surprise? This is exactly what was predicted in the threads back in 2014 where people complained about the cash shop.

PS: I noticed all the rage about eureka seems to have taken a back burner, as will this. So stop poisoning other people threads by taking them off topic (A complaint you leveled many times in one of your own threads.)

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

To add to what Callinon said, we're not only going through with the subscription model, we're also purchasing every expansion for what is
essentially the price of a new game. Additional subscriptions and fees and schemes does become overwhelming to anyone with an active budget.
I've not unsubbed yet, not for this. But it is starting to feel like we're getting ready to go from FFXIV: Stormblood, to FFXIV: Ed, Edd, n' Eddy, and it's ok for players, potential, lost, or otherwise, to not like it.

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Rulf's flying pig mount confirmed! Lol, on another note. I gotta say, I'm looking forward to the app. Now, don't shoot me down right there, hear me out. I am looking forward to it JUST to talk to my pals who don't/can't do discord. It's another means to keep in touch to me. All the other mumbo-jumbo is just...stuff to me, AND, I WON'T be paying for the premium version. Not because I'm against it, but more because the only feature I really care for is free. More space WOULD be nice, but not needed "for me" atm. However, I do see why people are getting so bent out of shape about it. It's not "the app" they are concerned with, but the mind set that will spread for paying for a little bit here. Later down the road it could be pay more to get less or as others put it P2W.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

...That person calling you a whale is fitting, you wave unlimited amount of money around just to get what you want. It is very damaging to the majority of the playerbase, giving game companies ammo to please a few minority over the majority taxing higher costs where it is not warranted, because those select few have enough money to throw around.

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I want to step in and talk about whales for a second. A quick definition for those who don't know: whales are a small portion (generally less than 1%) of a free-to-play game's audience who account for the vast majority (90%+) of the game's revenue. A lot of F2P games exist by targeting whales and extracting as much money as they can from them.

Vstarstruck, you are very much misunderstanding the relationship between whales and companies making games. They aren't catering to them because they want to reward big spending, they are trying to extract value from them through addictive gameplay elements. The people who benefit from whales are other players, because whales subsidize everyone else's ability to play for free. Without whales, the free to play model is much more difficult (though not impossible) to pull off.

Whales aren't really a thing in this sense in FFXIV. Because everyone is paying at least $10/month, even buying every single thing in the Mog Station isn't going to account for the level of revenue whales typically account for. $5/month does not a whale make. If you assume 1% of players pay $34/month ($13 for sub + $5 for app + $16 for retainers), while everyone else pays $10/month (legacy sub), then the 1% would then account for a whopping 3.3% of overall revenue. If that 1% also spent $107,000 per person per year on the Mog Station, then they'd account for 90% of the revenue. That's a lot of dye purchases.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

That person calling you a whale is fitting, you wave unlimited amount of money around just to get what you want. It is very damaging to the majority of the playerbase, giving game companies ammo to please a few minority over the majority taxing higher costs where it is not warranted, because those select few have enough money to throw around.

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Dude, if paying an extra $5.00 a month makes someone a whale in your view, you need to take your un-sub thread seriously, stop playing video games altogether, and re-think the life choices you made that put you into such extreme poverty. $5 a month does not make a whale. I know of people in Puzzles and Dragons that spent $10k on the game last year alone, and are considered "borderline" by that games "whale community".

Most people who aren't eternally bad with their money can afford the extra $5 off the interest in their bank account alone.

I'm sure not leaving don't want loose my house that put so much time and money into and think my sub still going for another 5 months.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

I want to step in and talk about whales for a second. A quick definition for those who don't know: whales are a small portion (generally less than 1%) of a free-to-play game's audience who account for the vast majority (90%+) of the game's revenue. A lot of F2P games exist by targeting whales and extracting as much money as they can from them.

Vstarstruck, you are very much misunderstanding the relationship between whales and companies making games. They aren't catering to them because they want to reward big spending, they are trying to extract value from them through addictive gameplay elements. The people who benefit from whales are other players, because whales subsidize everyone else's ability to play for free. Without whales, the free to play model is much more difficult (though not impossible) to pull off.

Whales aren't really a thing in this sense in FFXIV. Because everyone is paying at least $10/month, even buying every single thing in the Mog Station isn't going to account for the level of revenue whales typically account for. $5/month does not a whale make. If you assume 1% of players pay $34/month ($13 for sub + $5 for app + $16 for retainers), while everyone else pays $10/month (legacy sub), then the 1% would then account for a whopping 3.3% of overall revenue. If that 1% also spent $107,000 per person per year on the Mog Station, then they'd account for 90% of the revenue. That's a lot of dye purchases.

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I am not, you are the one mistaken. Maybe in an ideal world you are right, but this is what happens in the real world:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2017/12/14/t...ost-his-family
It is exploitation, it is not doing anyone favors like you are implying.
second off its 15 dollars, for 36 dollars total a month, that is whaling, supporting overpay for stuff that should be in the base sub. Plus you need consider mog station and the moogle coins on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Remyogic

Dude, if paying an extra $5.00 a month makes someone a whale in your view, you need to take your un-sub thread seriously, stop playing video games altogether, and re-think the life choices you made that put you into such extreme poverty. $5 a month does not make a whale. I know of people in Puzzles and Dragons that spent $10k on the game last year alone, and are considered "borderline" by that games "whale community".

Most people who aren't eternally bad with their money can afford the extra $5 off the interest in their bank account alone.

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It is not just 5 dollars, it is 2 dollars here, 18 dollars there, 125 EUR for a statue because it gates an emote... unknown amounts for moogle coins. This is why people say they are starting to nickle and dime people to death

I thought Kotaku was a bad thing to use as a reference... :thoughtful: