Lily a little unnecessary?

If they understood Spear was bad, they might get Lillies aren't very good at some point... R-right?

Either way, I think the only plausible reasons Lillies haven't been changed yet are either A) Them being kind of useless doesn't make the job bad, so no point altering it for now or; B)Devs haven't came with anything they'd consider good or balanced to replace/rework.

Technically all the gauges are tacked on, but Lilies as a system does seem extra lackluster. Most of the gauges seem to just be providing a second or different visual indicator of what your status bar is/was already telling you. I was thinking that Lilies would tie into the level 70 WHM power somehow, but found out that confessions is a different thing. Then I realized what Lilies was doing and...meh. On the bright side, it's a gauge I think I can turn off completely and not just use simple mode on like most of my jobs. I do not understand why anyone would need a full 2"x2" (or however it scales) gauge on their screen. But that's another thread...

I feel like they made Lilies as a PvP thing then just tacked it onto PvE content. Lilies are great in PvP when the entire content revolves around spike damage and highly unpredictable damage so Cure, Cure II, and CDR start to become quite a thing to just help the WHM keep up with the explosiveness of the content.

I'm not holding my breath for any changes but it would be nice to see something for 4.4 leading up to the new raid tier.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I like lilies. They're a nice little comeback mechanic if you die or run out of mana through other means.

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Lilies have no appreciable positive impact on your mana pool. You're not saving much mana with a ~12s recast reduction on a select few oGCDs, especially when you're spending mana to generate them in the first place.

I completely ignore lillies to the point where I forget they even exist. That's how much they matter to me.

I never turned off the gauge for whatever reason though. I should probably do that.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

If they understood Spear was bad, they might get Lillies aren't very good at some point... R-right?

Either way, I think the only plausible reasons Lillies haven't been changed yet are either A) Them being kind of useless doesn't make the job bad, so no point altering it for now or; B)Devs haven't came with anything they'd consider good or balanced to replace/rework.

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Divide them into two different types of lillies maybe. One type makes Aero / Stone spells instant per lily, and the other makes Cure spells instant per lily?

Would need to change how they generate, though.

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Originally Posted by RojGardoth

Technically all the gauges are tacked on, but Lilies as a system does seem extra lackluster. Most of the gauges seem to just be providing a second or different visual indicator of what your status bar is/was already telling you. I was thinking that Lilies would tie into the level 70 WHM power somehow, but found out that confessions is a different thing. Then I realized what Lilies was doing and...meh.

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The gagues are tacked on, but the systems aren't. Aetherflow matters to SCH no matter if it's on your buff bar or in a gauge, for example. Removing Aetherflow from the game would drastically alter SCH.

Lilies don't matter. Period. Removing lilies from the game wouldn't affect WHM at all. That's what we mean by "tacked on". I contend that WHM is the only job where the entire mechanic behind the gauge is functionally irrelevant. (PLD is the next closest one, but you do actually want to use Sheltron and Intervention so it's doing more than nothing.)

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I feel like they made Lilies as a PvP thing then just tacked it onto PvE content. Lilies are great in PvP when the entire content revolves around spike damage and highly unpredictable damage so Cure, Cure II, and CDR start to become quite a thing to just help the WHM keep up with the explosiveness of the content.

I'm not holding my breath for any changes but it would be nice to see something for 4.4 leading up to the new raid tier.

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Well it also helps that lilies can reduce the CD of an ability up to 50% in PvP and Benediction is also affected. It's quite noticeable a 60 second reduction CD.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Divide them into two different types of lillies maybe. One type makes Aero / Stone spells instant per lily, and the other makes Cure spells instant per lily?

Would need to change how they generate, though.

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It doesn't matter how they're generated really, the actual cooldown reduction is so weak that it only becomes meaningful if you spend 3 Lillies on Asylum. I see lillies as just a small help to players that are still learning how to heal, which isn't bad? But it isn't good either.

The lilies, it's in a sense, an automatic Aetherflow-like function now. As originally designed they were RNG proc's. Removing the RNG was the right thing, but they should have learned from Arcanist/SCH/SMN Aetherflow that locking skills or changing their power behind a second manual mechanic only leads to that mechanic being ignored or fumbled by players who are too busy to look at this indicator, as was the case with Cleric Stance.

So all the lily gauge does is offer an indicator that you're actually healing, and not just wasting healing casts that result in nothing.

Where the Lily system was changed more from release was how Plenary Indulgence, wound up being made less useful, but now always usable.

In 4.05

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Plenary Indulgence
Party members will no longer be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Cure and Cure II. They will instead be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.
The chance of granting party members a Confession has been increased from 20% to 100%.
The duration of the Confession has been reduced from 30 to 10 seconds.
Healing potency based on the number of stacks of Confession has been reduced from 400 for one stack, 500 for two stacks, and 600 for three stacks to 150 for one stack, 300 for two stacks, and 450 for three stacks.
Recast time increased from 15 to 60 seconds.
Confession stacks will now also be granted to the player casting Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.

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So from the notes, you get the impression that PI was probably being ignored completely, because it was only creating stacks for one player at the time. I get what their thought process was behind this (eg player is using cure on the tanks, thus the confession stack should always be up, thus every third cure could be PI) but since it's a level 70 skill, there's little content for which it's available. Thus it's asking players to change their strategy just for level 70 content. The way it's setup now actually discourages overhealing by using Medica/Medica II/Cure III as well, since if you fumble it no stacks are given. However the recast time and confession stacks now make it even less likely to have the conditions to be used, since the confession stacks are shorter than the recast time.

If you look in the 4.2 patch notes:

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Divine Benison
Healing Lily requirement has been removed.
* The trait Secret of the Lily will still consume healing lilies upon the use of Divine Benison, shortening its cast time.
* Updated 02/01/2018 2:00 a.m. (PST)

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So as it stands right now Plenary Indulgence ends up being an additional "free" medica cast, assuming you notice it in the 10 second window it's available. Most of the time it's not available because the confession stacks drop off too quickly, because players only have the confession stack from being healed immediately before hand.

I still don't see why SE thought RNG based skills would be embraced. For a healer, there should be no RNG aspect to healing.