Prohibit the advertising of content sales via the cross-server PF

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Disagreed really, for many raiders it’s our only income. Food and pots arent cheap, and if you’re not in the progression race team, chances are the FC isn’t supplying.

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I get plenty of gil for food, pots and melds just by sending one retainer for ventures and occasionally doing the weekly Wondrous Tails / challenge log. Currently sitting at over 40M without actually having done anything for it. I've also bought two houses. :D In my eyes the problem is not having things to spend gil on and the game just throwing it at you.

Casinos? I've never see that on Chaos Datacenter PF. How the hell they do that?

I for the life of my do not understand why anyone would be against this. The OP is specifically stating CROSS SERVER PF, how would someone get paid for a run cross server outside of RMT? They don't because you can't trade gil, this is a common sense suggestion and should be offically implemented by adding a report function to party finder to report listing like this, I also don't see an issue with extending said rule to include PF's that are intentionally being mislisted, I don't advertise my FC using the Duty Expert Roulette or Lakshmi EX listings because its obnoxious and an abuse of the PF system and so is this. They can have server specific listings under the no name PF listing they don't need to spam up the list by mis labeling their stuff.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

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Literally no one here in this discussion is defending RMT....a lot of us just said we don't mind people selling content for gil. Two different things.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Literally no one here in this discussion is defending RMT....a lot of us just said we don't mind people selling content for gil. Two different things.

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The OP title specially says cross server selling, there is no way to trade cross gil cross server which means cross world sellers can only be asking for real money. Discussion of runs for gil is not relevant to the topic.

Yeah, I've been noticing a lot of PF listings from other servers advertising selling the savage pages. They don't say specifically for gil, and as they are advertising cross-servers it's unlikely they can even sell them for gil anyway. It's definitely annoying to scroll through them looking for legitimate parties.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I’d be interested to see if they actually would go ahead with a coil sale tbh. Even on the safe assumption they will need to play your character, I strongly expect it’s going to be a significant amount of work to get the clear again. I’ve always chalked it up as a marketing thing more than a realistic offer

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I wouldn't be surprised. Within a week or two after the first clear someone was advertising their whole account for sale. And they had proof of an Ultimate clear. Granted, not in-game mind you.

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

You need to report these guys. They are manipulating a system to do already prohibited activity. Make a screenshot, use something like Imgur to host it, send the link via the “Report Harassment” button under Support Desk. It is used for more than harassment - you can report cheaters, bots, and all kinds of things through it. You’ll help SE crack down on the behavior.

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I made an initial report with the STF, but the I remembered you are given no record of reports and bots I reported a year ago are still active and still botting, so I decided to try your suggestion.

Here are different automated responses I received:
"We are aware of the disruptions caused by Real Money Trading (RMT), and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. We take every measure to stop violations of the User Agreement, and will certainly look in to this matter. If you have included names in your report, then the matter will be recorded and investigated"

"We understand that your time is valuable and appreciate your efforts to report and explain your concerns. If you wish to respond directly about this issue.... (the usual)"

"The initial support request that was submitted about this matter has entered our queue, and it will be addressed by a GM as soon as possible. As we have received multiple requests for assistance with this concern, we will only be able to address the initial call. Should you have additional... (the usual)"

"We have received your report regarding grief tactics and we apologize for any disruption that this has caused. Please accept out apologies for being unable to speak with you directly... (the usual)"

"We understand that it is frustrating to have these types of advertisements sent to you, since RMT can be disruptive both to chat and to the ability to enjoy the game.Unfortunately, due to the number of reports that we have received about this customer, a personal response is not possible at this time. Our efforts are being focused on investigating this advertiser, and preventing them from continuing to advertise in the game.

To help prevent further messages from this advertiser, we recommend using the blacklist, which can be accessed.. (the usual)"

Edit: I responded to the above indicating it was being done by cross-server pf (was mentioned in the original report) and that blacklisting has no effect.

Automated Response: "We are aware that the use of third party programs has caused disruptions for many players, and we take every measure to stop violations of the User Agreement. If you have included names in your report...(the usual)" Edit ends here.

I spoke with two GMs. One seemed to consider it a bit odd, took down some information and said they would investigate.

Some back and forth with the other GM:
GM: Did they mention to you or have they said they're selling clears for real money? (paraphrased)
I point out that the listings are currently up in the party finder, are being shown to the whole data center and receiving payment across servers requires the uses of real money or RMT services
GM:"I see, according to the logs they seem to only be selling runs for Gil and that they have it listed cross-world by default."
GM: "Selling runs for Gil is not against the terms of service."
GM: "I feel that I have everything I need to begin my investigation. Before I take my leave is there anything else that I may be able to assist you with today?"
I ask if they can request the advertisers to uncheck the option that has the listings being shown across the data center.
GM: "No I can not"
GM: "Players are allowed to do this and it would be interruption of their game play if I were to make them stop."
Me: Even though it's across the data center? (paraphrased)
GM: "That's correct."
Me: How are they receiving gil across servers? (paraphrased)
The GM then ends the conversation.

Thoughts?

People also try to recruit for FCs cross-server. People try to sell houses cross-server. People try to recruit for treasure maps cross-server.

Why assume this is all about RMT? Seems just as (or more) likely that people are just ignorant, oblivious, or just dumb.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Me: How are they receiving gil across servers? (paraphrased)

Thoughts?

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Let me say first: I never was in the buisness of selling runs (seriously, why would I when crafting is so easy...) but I dont mind it being a thing - if someone wants to pay for a clear, thats their choice. If a group is good enough to carry someone, thats their thing. I dont have to like it and neither do you, but my personal stance is: Its their buisness and frankly I dont see why you'd get offended by that. Or why you're more offended by that than by people recruiting for statics using the cross-server-option. Or for even FCs, LS and such. I get your RMT-argument, and yes, RMT is a problem but this isnt RMT, its selling clears.

And heres the thing now: You dont knwo 100% that there is RMT or real money involved - its extremly likely, I'll grant you that (and my best guess aswell). But unless there are records you dont know and you have no proof of that. For all you, we and the GMs know they might be paid by the buyer joining their discord and singing Answers for the group. Or the buyer is required to get the money to them somehow - and if its transfering servers. The group could also have alts on different servers, so the payment could go to one of them. Or the group is scattered in the first place.

My point is: The obvious conclusion here is that some sort of trade outside of the game, not involving gil, is involved. But at the end of the day there is the slim chance that they're handling it differently.
And to be fair: I dont really understand how this is more annoying to anyone than any sort of recruiting for a static PFs and why thats not considered "spam" then.

So, my personal thoughts are: I'm not bothered by this and I dont really understand why you are.