Consolidating Warrior 4.0 Feedback Thread

Fell Cleave would be 400 potency against the 350 potency of Inner Beast. Your calculation is wrong. You don't apply the penalty to FC and also remove it from IB.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

- Replace Shake it off with the old PvP Thrill of War (AOE thrill of battle for the party)

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Great idea, would put Shake it Off on par with Divine Veil.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Fell Cleave would be 400 potency against the 350 potency of Inner Beast. Your calculation is wrong. You don't apply the penalty to FC and also remove it from IB.

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My calculation is not wrong, you just don't like it. So Fell Cleave should be usable in Defiance in addition to IB, and also ignore the damage penalty? -_- I agree WAR needs some help, but the job is about trade-offs and always has been.

I would be fine if Fell Cleave was usable in Defiance and ignored the penalty if they removed IB. I don't think that would really hurt WAR either, as they are swimming in personal mitigation right now.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

My calculation is not wrong, you just don't like it. So Fell Cleave should be usable in Defiance in addition to IB, and also ignore the damage penalty? -_- I agree WAR needs some help, but the job is about trade-offs and always has been.

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It is wrong. You either scale IB up as if it didn't have the penalty ignore (500 vs 437.5) or scale FC down and don't touch IB because it ignores the penalty (400 vs 350). You don't do both at once.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

My calculation is not wrong, you just don't like it.

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Actually it looks like you are changing the reference frame between your calculations, the ones for IB and SC seem to be calculated with defiance's penalty as the base and the FC/decimate set is with no stance as base.

Using IB and SC are just their flat stated potency of 350 and 200 respectively (no stance as base potency)
FC and decimate would be the numbers you originally used.

This leads to FC and Decimate being slightly more potency than their counterparts in this theoretical situation (50 and 24 potency respectively)

IB in defiance 350 potency
IF FC would be possible in defiance 400 potency
FC in deliverance 500 potency
IF IB would be possible in deliverance 367.5 potency

For IB the 20% dmg reduce doesnt exist. You can only add 5% from deliverance for that example

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

My calculation is not wrong, you just don't like it.

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No it is just flat out wrong. Please think about what you are actually comparing there. I am not even taking part in this FC in Defiance discussion.

You guys are misunderstanding.

Inner Beast is tuned and balanced in such a way that you still have an attack that does proportionately high DPS relative to the rest of your skills while you are in a given stance.

For example, lets say that a Fell Cleave in Deliverance is 500 potency and an auto attack is 100 potency. So you have a big nuke attack that is 5x more powerful than an AA.

Now in Defiance, your AAs deal 76.2 potency (factoring in the Defiance penalty plus the loss of the 1.05x modifer of Deliverance). Inner Beast is now your big nuke attack, and it deals closer to 6x your AA potency, and proportionately higher relative to the rest of your GCDs.

Relative to that potency and the potency of the rest of your GCDs, Inner Beast is actually a higher increase over the average Defiance PPGCD than Fell Cleave is an increase over the average Deliverance PPGCD. This is why I said that saying that WAR just loses the Damage of Fell Cleave completely in Defiance is fallacious. You don't switch to Defiance and that GCD is just gone from your rotation, its just replaced with IB, which appears based on what math I have here to be just as much of a DPS gain while you are in Defiance. So I don't believe it is accurate to say that it is "gated by Deliverance".

tl;dr Inner Beast is roughly the same if not a higher increase to Defiance's PPGCD than Fell Cleave is to Deliverance's PPGCD. So the DPS loss isn't the loss of Fell Cleave, its the loss inherent from Defiance across the board, so to want to do away with the former is basically to want to do away with the Defiance penalty altogether, across the board, which I found ridiculous.

Ideally, what they should do is add an effect to Unchained that speeds beast gauge generation or slows its consumption relative to Inner Release.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

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While maybe yes. Thats not what you said before. People just called you out on the math on IB/SC which is wrong

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Originally Posted by Baci

While maybe yes. Thats not what you said before. People just called you out on the math on IB/SC which is wrong

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How was it wrong? In Defiance IB is effectively a 437.5 potency attack relative to the rest of your GCDs, is it not? and there's no indication or assumption to base the idea that Fell Cleave would ignore the damage penalty on.

It would be like asking for Blood Weapon to be useable in Grit and also to have all of Blood Price's effects tacked onto it. It didn't make sense to me.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion. For a tank with no utility now, WAR should hands down be dealing noticeably more damage. I just didn't think the argument for Fell Cleave not being gated behind Deliverance made sense or that it would fix the problem.