Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Are you damn kidding? A FF summoner isnt supposed to even have heal... Nor does this improve his dd role in any way. If the summoner should be able to heal then through a pet (e.g. carbuncle > "healing ruby") and nothing else.

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Would Improve the current role significantly giving me away to heal my pet again. Summoners used to have that ability to heal their pet in this game and have had Physic as a useless ability for some time now. Kill two birds with one stone by making physic not only useful, and give me away to not have to re summon my pet for the third time.

Have you seen Redmage? Their heal is extremely useful utility. Double casting Vercure can be really helpful if a dungeon/instance/raid goes south and somebody needs a heal.

Also having summoner use a healing pet, would turn them into another class called scholar.... Summoners already have the ability to cast physic... why not make it useful?

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Originally Posted by Medicine

Their MP regen got hit pretty hard and SE took a freaking bat to their aoe dps.

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Twas no bat...

Twas a sledgehammer!

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Originally Posted by Synrin

As a SCH and someone whose main throughout HW was SMN, I agree.

SMN's strongest side was obviously AoE burst, which took a hit. Single-target I haven't tested enough to be able to pinpoint the exact difference, but boy do I feel weak in 50/60 content.

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Smn took quite a few big hits single target. Ruin 3 losing 50 potency, Dots dropping from 135 potency per tick to 80. Dreadywyrm trance tri disaster and contagion turned Tri disaster from 870 potency to 1440. That same combo is only 880 potency now. Enkindle went from 490 to 350.

Everywhere we look, we lose anywhere from 50 to 140 potency on our normal spells to contagion dropping 560 potency

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I love this FF summoner argument, mostly because it's so random. Of the actual true summoners in the main FF games, Three were pure SMN damage ((FFIII and FFV, ignoring the job cross-class system, FFXI, which did everything through the SMN), one had extra damage skills (Rydia) and 2-3 had healing skills (Yuna and Garnet, Eiko technically).

So tell me, where is it forced to not allow a heal?

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Oh really, and if you are talking about FFX, FFVIII, FFIX etc. these all had no fixed FF job roles.


And as we are talking about FFXIV it has fixed roles - dps, heal and tank.

And since she/he is talking about the smn being nerfed in damage how would the abbillity to have a decent single heal improve anything?

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Also having summoner use a healing pet, would turn them into another class called scholar....

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Not if "healing ruby" from carbuncle is a huge group heal with a re-use timer ...which you would use in emergency situations. not like the endless heal spam of a fairy..

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Would Improve the current role significantly giving me away to heal my pet again.

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then why you dont ask for a decent pet heal and to get rid of the useless physic heal instead maybe? which is just a relic of the cross class system from SCH..

Why can't I keep my pet alive SE? Why in the world would you take Sustain without making Physik stronger? I heal my carbi for 600 when he has 21k HP thats not helping anyone.

Playing summoner makes me so sad now... its almost 70 though so im going to finish it and then switch to another DPS job. Now to find a poor hapless tank or healer to level with.

I haven't hit 70 yet but I could see the impact instantly at 60. If I want to do anything solo or otherwise, I absolutely have to have my chocobo out to get back any damage SE took away. I can't keep my egis alive, can't haul Shadow Flare off the ground and move it to where the mobs were taken, I have no third dot to cast to take up seconds standing around waiting for flow. All I found myself able to do is cast Miasma, Bio, dump flare and hope the stuff isn't moved out, and spam nerfed ruin for whatever damage I can get out of that while waiting to use trance. I don't know how to explain it. Just seems like I'm doing half of the damage I used to. To learn that bane makes dots worse is disheartening. I didn't notice that since there wasn't much to tell when you're in a fate and 20 other people are hitting everything, but now that explains stuff taking longer to die solo. Stuff doesn't die efficiently for summoner anymore now, I guess lol

I can kinda understand why they tried to make what changes they did to the job. The dot changes gives SMN more mobility, more MP to play around with (like for rezzing or running around spamming Ruin 2 like an idiot), and overall ease of use starting off (which it almost didn't need, but oh well). The DR tweaks to Bane and Deathflare were the same as the ones given to every AoE with a potency over 200, especially since Bane potency with Bio 3 and Miasma 3 would be a total of 800, which is outstanding for a regular AoE. The tweak prevent Aetherflow multi-stacking could've been a technical sacrifice, but it could also have been a deliberate attempt to reign in on overly complicated openers with maybe MCH being the exception just because I don't think anyone has figured that job out yet. As a DPS though, it still works even though it might not feel like it.

There are only really two massive flaws I could notice with the job. One is that lack of Sustain, which is sort of okay when that pet dies and you have that extra MP from not having a third dot to re-summon it, but it gets far too rough in regard to solo play when Titan-egi can only take so much before it goes from nugget to pancake. The other massive flaw is what makes RDM vastly more superior to SMN: support function. Where Resurrection costs just over a quarter of a SMN's max MP and is only instant once every minute or so, Verraise costs far cheaper and is an instant-cast whenever that RDM feels like it. Where Physick is still a Mind-based relic of the past (which might be hard-coded in), Vercure is int-based, making it vastly superior not just in terms of emergency heals, but also in terms of solo gameplay.

The remedy to both of these flaws would be to make Physick Int-based like Vercure rather than Mind-based as it is currently. That way, it could provide something more suitable in case of emergency while giving something to offset the loss of Sustain, but not be anywhere near strong enough to outright replace a healer. The current remedy for now would be to solo like every other DPS job.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

How is SCH in a bad spot? They were buffed in everything related to their actual job, and their single-target DPS is still vastly superior to the other healers.

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I wouldn't be so sure about that.

WHM vs SCH
250 Potency GCD (Stone IV) vs 230 Potency (Broil II)
370 Potency DoT (Aero III) + 350 (Aero II) vs 300 (Miasma) + 350 (Bio II)
Assize 300 Potency/min vs Shadow Flare 250 Potency/min

Where things get a bit murky is when you start poking into Presence of Mind's impact, the use of Aetherflow skills, and CD reducing procs...etc. but as you can see above, WHM generally has higher potencies than SCH.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

And since she/he is talking about the smn being nerfed in damage how would the abbillity to have a decent single heal improve anything?

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Simple. Our pet no longer dies. Meaning we don't have to waste a swiftcast and 25% of our mp to re-summon our pet that is 25% of our damage.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

then why you dont ask for a decent pet heal and to get rid of the useless physic heal instead maybe? which is just a relic of the cross class system from SCH..

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Are you aware that Stormblood removed a decent pet heal? It was called sustain and it no longer exists. Physic is a healing spell that is learned on the basic class of arcanist. It is currently a useless spell on smn(Thought stormblood was trying to get rid of useless spells..)
Good way not to make it useless though? Make it actually good healing spell on summoner that I can use on my pet or party members.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Are you damn kidding? A FF summoner isnt supposed to even have heal... Nor does this improve his dd role in any way. If the summoner should be able to heal then through a pet (e.g. carbuncle > "healing ruby") and nothing else.

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Rydia, Garnet, Eiko, and Yuna all could heal. Yuna specifically could heal her aeons in a multitude of ways in and outside of battle. This isn't even covering the games that let you make your own skill setups or summons that healed.