Vedrfolnir / Darkscale fate

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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Can I ask why every single FATE needs to suit you? You have all but the very few achievement fates that suit what you want from FATEs. Why does the game need less diverse types of content just because they don't fit in with the other kinds of FATEs of being able to be solo'd with minimal thought process and no group organization?

Also how hard is tank and spank which is the pre-50 ARR achievement fates? The turtle in Dravanian Forelands also has 1 single mechanic to it, it's not that hard.

If you don't like the fact these FATEs are hard, just skip them.

Also you don't need numbers for Darkscale. Again, like others, it can be done in a Light Party. It just takes longer but you need a healer. Luckily this time you do not need a tank. 1 Healer and 2-3 DPS is all you need to clear the FATE in a reasonable amount of time.

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Originally Posted by kuma_aus

Can I ask why every single FATE needs to suit you? You have all but the very few achievement fates that suit what you want from FATEs. Why does the game need less diverse types of content just because they don't fit in with the other kinds of FATEs of being able to be solo'd with minimal thought process and no group organization?

Also how hard is tank and spank which is the pre-50 ARR achievement fates? The turtle in Dravanian Forelands also has 1 single mechanic to it, it's not that hard.

If you don't like the fact these FATEs are hard, just skip them.

Also you don't need numbers for Darkscale. Again, like others, it can be done in a Light Party. It just takes longer but you need a healer. Luckily this time you do not need a tank. 1 Healer and 2-3 DPS is all you need to clear the FATE in a reasonable amount of time.

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Careful inserting intention into my words- never said they needed to suit me, I said what I think the purpose of FATEs are and I used the fact that SE is making certain FATEs easier for smaller groups for the basis of my thought (admittedly across multiple posts, so have to read it as one whole unit if you want to understand my intention). I actually rarely touch FATE content.. so its not me asking for me (it wasn't even me asking in the first place lol). I've had a few achievements I've missed yeah but it didn't really bother me, just a bit like "damn, missed that meaningless extra 10 achievement points".

Again, I believe SE wants FATEs to be something people can easily and readily get together with whoever is in the zone at the time and do it, besides the most important (like Odin) also no need for specific compositions and when they can't anymore SE is going to change it - I believe, and feel supported by the aspect of how they responded to this thread (they're going to make it easier for a smaller group).

This isn't me designing FATEs to my tastes for me and only my concerns, this is me talking about why I think you won't get what you want and why it would be better to look else where and that I value what you want (perhaps besides the aspect of timers part haha, don't really care for the FATEs on timers/cycles part). Which is why I suggested other things that could be done to do, especially content for already end game players too even. It is also why I specifically said I don't think you're wrong about what you'd like to see, just that I don't think it'll be as likely or last as long as if we had something else (like more Treasure / Interesting and valuable Leves).

To the point of me thinking you're not "wrong" I also believe you're free to ask for the opposite of what is going to be changed, not suggesting you not ask either~! I was attempting to suggest a tangent system that achieved a similar feeling while also suggesting why the change is going to take place both from a personal perspective and as well what I think SE sees out of the content (in a later post). I think unfortunately if they did perhaps make a harder (or in your scenario, since it seems like your group has a few kupo nuts to share, a reasonable difficulty) FATE - I imagine it would get nerfed after a while when a few people said it was too hard and or annoying as people failed it too often. Basically even if you got what you want I don't think it'd last very long, and that's not cause I'm saying it shouldn't.. just that I don't think it would - because of how FATEs are presented to people as a sort of open arms come at me for an easy time sort of thing lol. I would still love to see some more hard open world content though, the open world is pretty cool and I'd like to travel more of it more often, but also have a reward that's worth while - not just go to Horizon because the statues look cool (which they do lol).

Although the change does benefit me when I do see a FATE, like Darkscale, it'll be easier to get done, it's still not my request that it was changed just that it happens to benefit me. If I happened to do it, I'd get it done far more reliably - one of the reasons I usually didn't switch from crafter to join in was like "lol 4 people, all DD and 10 minutes late, this one is not going to make it". I may actually join in now.

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Originally Posted by kuma_aus

I really hope fates don't get easier for small parties. It's nice having hard content in the open world that need people to gather up for it. And with Novice Network and Party Finder, it's not that much trouble to get people to come help so I think it's fine if fates require things like tanks and healers.

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If they awarded Centurio Seals, it might get more consistent participation.

I feel like all of you replied here because a community manager answered but nobody actually readed OP.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

I feel like all of you replied here because a community manager answered but nobody actually readed OP.

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I read the OP. His issue was with that FATE by the time they got there the duder already took too much damage but as others have pointed out its easily mitigated. As I've pointed out also is that one of the fates required to make that fate spawns requires you to start it and because of that there is ample time to get a decent party. That fate (rainbow) requires the same mechanic of healing the drangonling and in my mind serves as a benchmark on wether or not you can finish the fate chain anyways. Even of your dps was slow, the fate in the op has no aggro table because it is locked on the guy you're supposed to be defending. It's like a dps and heal check wrapped into a fate and it is one of the only instances like that.

No, I don't think any fate really needs adjustment because these fights are really fun and exciting. The only ones really that feel high stakes and feel good to finish with a group.

But thats the thing, it's a group effort and manageable with 5-8 people. There's no real reason I can see that wouldn't get you a party in time anyways. I play on Famfrit and our population is low to the point all housing areas have open plots for days at some times.

I don't want this made easier because it's one of the few group things left in the open world that isn't mindless farming

The fates aren't even that hard so far. All it takes is coordination and networking

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

I read the OP. His issue was with that FATE by the time they got there the duder already took too much damage but as others have pointed out its easily mitigated. As I've pointed out also is that one of the fates required to make that fate spawns requires you to start it and because of that there is ample time to get a decent party. That fate (rainbow) requires the same mechanic of healing the drangonling and in my mind serves as a benchmark on wether or not you can finish the fate chain anyways. Even of your dps was slow, the fate in the op has no aggro table because it is locked on the guy you're supposed to be defending. It's like a dps and heal check wrapped into a fate and it is one of the only instances like that.

No, I don't think any fate really needs adjustment because these fights are really fun and exciting. The only ones really that feel high stakes and feel good to finish with a group.

But thats the thing, it's a group effort and manageable with 5-8 people. There's no real reason I can see that wouldn't get you a party in time anyways. I play on Famfrit and our population is low to the point all housing areas have open plots for days at some times.

I don't want this made easier because it's one of the few group things left in the open world that isn't mindless farming

The fates aren't even that hard so far. All it takes is coordination and networking

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Arutan is OP ;D, not saying you didn't know that but it looked like it. Perhaps you could suggest other ways to add cool open world content? Feel free to rally against SE, really not trying to stop people (totally their right to not like a change) but I think we could get the same feeling of neat open world content while keeping what I think SE wants with FATEs.

Like I said, I "THINK" they want them to be relatively manageable with /whatever/ combination of jobs you come at it with, and with what is available in the zone currently, besides extremely unique ones like Odin (Darkscale != Odin) - and the key issue here was you're not getting the dragon fate done without either an entire ark of DD or a few healers/WHM, and it looks like SE is responding by saying they're noting that issue.

At least the reason why I've hitched onto Kuma/I guess a bit of your point so much is I agree open world content = cool - more please? And honestly I think you could make it better by not going through FATEs which are not really reliable, and if you boost all FATEs rewards too much then you'll have another problem on your hands lol. So something like making Leves intriguing again - since at least from what I've seen is a rather underused content now (minus DoH/L), changing a few bits to the system, adding a few challenge / new leve types for adventurous solo and groups.. maybe this could be a better route for everyone? Or another system. Having the FATEs available in the background with a more incentivized/easier to use leve system would be an extra bonus (part of the issue I think is the whole obtaining, dropping off, menu barrage, and rewards not being horrible but not really O.O "yeah!" either). Edit: realized it might not be clear when I speak of higher rewards I don't mean "easy + rewarding", just modified to encourage higher difficulty to be worth while (and all of the leve changes I suggested don't have to be hard persay, but I feel that content is hardly visited besides as said DoH/L and of course bots lol).

Anyway Arutan is supposed to adopt me so I'll stop injecting open world conversation into his thread now lol.

Edit: @Dreggit, Definitely understand your point of view, like Kuma's and I don't think either desire is wrong, nor the OP's, but as said I have my own feelings too: like much of what is desired I like, perhaps just in a different form - as a matter of preference, you're right leves can be stiff but anything a FATE can do besides dynamic grouping a leve could do as well, where FATEs are good for dynamic group Leves can shine in their control of the specific situation like in difficulty, location, regularity, and even add more complex encounters due to expectation. I like the idea of more weather/unique event stuff btw. Going to avoid adding another post just because I feel it'll be easy to entirely commandeer the thread lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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If the issue was uninteresting zones then that is a fault in the design of the zone. I understand the sentiment in that there are flaws with specific fates and I do agree that there are flaws. But I don't see a reason to change this particular fate chain because as I said it really comes down to a networking issue among people. It's not like the fate spawns rarely like Odin, it is triggered by small (3) fates that spawn often and then the pop of the chain shortly after.

It might be interesting if they had some weather based fates that effected the environment in some way that changed the world. Not like Odin but perhaps during Gale weather for example you need to somehow prevent something from falling off the Churning Mist by involving crafters and people defending them... But I doubt the current engine could support that much less getting people to do it anyways.

Fates in nature are stale in that they are all following the same kind of actions. Same thing can be said about levequests and dungeons. They follow a strict kind of outline with little deviation. More mechanic heavy fates could be fun.

I don't see a reason why the only interesting ones need changing

As one who did the Darkscale Fate chain and the fates required for Vedrfolnir Devoteth on two of my characters, here are my thoughts on each related fate:

1. Rastaban Vibration - Just a usual fate with trash mobs. Nothing too bad here.

2. Mogicide - At least the fate doesn't end in the event the moogle gets beat by the boss. Just another usual boss fight.

3. End of the Rainbow - This is one fate I have a problem with when one does it solo. The Zenith Dragonling must be healthy in order for the fate to be successful. But there are several hard-hitting enemies that also have quite a high amount of HP. In addition, the untargetable boss will also hit said Dragonling. The fate is also synced to level 58, so attack and healing output are also limited.

4. Darkscale Descendeth - Because of it's long spawn timer as it is a big-boss fate with an achievement (e.g., Lazy for You, The Eyes Have It, Dark Devices, etc.), it isn't really feasible to camp the fate unless one really wants the exp, i136 belt, achievement, and access to Vedrfolnir Devoteth. Vedrfolnir will be defeated in a minute if no healer is there to keep him healthy as the OP brought up. Not to mention that Vedrfolnir will be tanking the fate for all 3 parts. And don't underestimate Darkscale when he starts going crazy with his room-wide aoe during the Devoureth part. The vulnerability stacks add up and the attack hurts real bad.

Might as well put the fate requiring all the 4 above fates to be completed:

5. Vedrfolnir Devoteth - Death Sentence hurts and will always put that Infirmity debuff, so healers have to use abilities to heal instead (and it will be used quite often I might add). Finally, players tend to be close to each other most of the time so the Tornado (the Twister-like move that isn't instakill, but still hits hard) clips on the players and knocks some of them out.


With FATEs being looked down upon and Palace of the Dead being a great alternative to level, people will be less likely to get the achievements related to the Darkscale and Vedrfolnir fates (and also harder to get the Ishgardian Half-barding from the latter fate).

I'm tired of these threads trying to fix things that aren't broken. The fates are made so you plan ahead to do them. You are not ment to solo them. There is literally nothing wrong with the design of them but I'm talking to walls so I'm walking away now

The issue for these large-scale Heavensward fates, especially Darkscale Descendeth, is actually relevance. Those fights were designed at the start of Heavensward, back when zone content was far more relevant since far more people were still leveling through those zones. Now that these zones are considerably sparse compared to 3.0, there aren't as many groups (let alone WHMs or any other healers for that matter) that those fates were designed for, especially when once players got their reward from it, they were done with it permanently.

Same case with Diadem. Once a player got their pegasus, they were done with it. No reward to keep players coming to open-world content continuously (i.e. seals, tomestones, etc.) makes that content no longer relevant.