Older Content Should still be relevant.

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Originally Posted by asheryon

"find a pf or fc that helps you": i couldnt convince my fc to help me synced, imagine to convince random strangers, some like the challenge but they simply wont waste their time for no chance of reward for a stranger.

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I never said it would be easy to find people to do this kind of content with. and this just solidifies the fact that people don't want to do old content.

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Originally Posted by asheryon

"the new tomestones would force players to do that content": not really, the idea of those new tomes would be to add a new alternate way to get things (not to eliminate the ones existing)

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It would force the people who do raid to do it, because it would add another way to get more gear faster. If I was raiding on the current next tier and this was implemented with the 3rd installment of Alexander, I'd be obligated by my raid static to do this roulette to help gear out faster. And this wouldn't effect just me, but every person who raids hardcore. This kind of reward is not needed.

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Originally Posted by asheryon

"use df": not too much people (waits of 2hs or more) and if it pops most of the people will be new.....disaster;

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This speaks volumes of the people who don't want to re-visit out-dated content. If there was as many people that want this, then you'd be able to see a bigger number of people in DF and less waits.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

And this wouldn't effect just me, but every person who raids hardcore.

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So...hardly anyone.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

My Comments are bad.

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Funny comment isn't funny, and thanks for cherry picking a random sentence without actually giving anything to the actual topic of conversation...

But just so you are clear, anyone who raids should be taking it seriously enough to cap their tomes every week and gearing their job to the best of their ability. Hardcore, midcore or casual. If theres another tomestone that has to be cap'd every week/month, Its just more required work to not be a burden on your static. I'm all for giving insentives to do the content the way it was meant to be done, but it needs to be other things like glam/minions/mounts...

This is probably going to be my last post for a while, i would like to see other people comment :).

In my idea, not only old content will be relevant but new content as well for the savage tomestones.Its all in how its balanced.Look at these main points of how it could fit everyone, for new and older players.

In my idea Savage tomestone are a MONTHLY CAP. Meaning yes there is weekly roulette's to do, but there is a wide variety of new content your not completely sick of yet(alex 2/3),Revamped such as savage primals that have new mechanics essent. making them new fights to enjoy, and old content like coil and 8 man version of dungeons that help you more easily max tomes out through midcore content that is not that hard.

Newest available content like alex 3 for example would give you the most savage tomestones and would be considered progression content, where you need much better gear to help you clear where as older content would prob. be fixed at a certain item level. In the end if you get good at clearing these fights, you could prob. EASILY cap you savage tomestones with the new fights, getting better gear, unlocking new key items you can purchase with the tomestones so you dont have to farm them as much saving you time, and helping get the tomestones you didn't get with maybe midcore savage dungeon roulette that would be cake walk compared to final coil or primals. In the end you have a lot of room to plan shit out even if you skipped three weeks in a row you could prob. get all the mere 450 tomestones in a week.Its a very flexible forgiving system. Savage dungeons are for people who don't want to do savage all the time, so you can prob. get most of the way there if you get your four weekly clears for savage dungeon roulettes then top it off with 1 to 3 clears from actual hard fights.

So under this system if you never wanted to do coil again you never have to. Yeah you can be dragged into doing older content against your will with your static, but ultimately i don't see why that would be a consistant problem, since if you had a decent static maybe THAT YOU LIKED RUNNING WITH, it wouldn't be a problem since your all having fun in TeamSpeak or Discord and it won't matter to you that much. You would prob. end up getting tomestones from the latest content you want to run anyways(alex 3) then do some semi-easy ass dungeons in savage dungeon roulette. BAM.

This system is about expanding the options and building a system where MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, you are not forced to do anything you don't want to. Sometimes you will be, but it wont prob. happen as much as you think, and even if it does, maybe you enjoy running with your static or your friends? Cause if you don't...you got more serious issues to worry about.

Older content would still stay dead regardless of this idea being implemented even if things were done "the hard way" and would only serve as a means for people that don't want to put as much time into the current savage tier to skip around it a bit which still ends up being counter productive to your own cause as you'd be putting current content into the grave faster which leads us back to here.

Really the only way to some what fix this is to add in more time gates and force players back through it for some small reward that would see the content live again albeit for a short time. Rather them instead focus on fixing PoTD and up coming fights.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

Rambling of a person with stockholm syndrome towards their static who feels the need to change quotes to their liking and is probably mad when it happens to themselves.

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You're constantly saying:"Have to." That is self-imposed. You are saying SE should not give more opportunities for gearing because you would feel the need to exploit them and that would be more work for you. You know what? If it was glam, minions or mounts, you push minion collectors, glamour enthusiast or mount collectors into that exact situation. But that's okay, right? It doesn't concern you after all. Plus, it directly labels any incentive ineffective because it's a one-time thing, making it dysfunctional in its actual purpose.

You're literally saying it's more important to not inconvenience 1% of the playerbase with an entirely self-imposed issue than fixing an ongoing problem. Wow. Just wow.

Having older content still meaning something would be great. These people put a lot of time and effort into this. Just looking at the scenery itself is great, and the design of the bosses I do like. Unfortunately, this game is on such a vertical progression that there's already a pile of old content, and at the rate they're going it is just going to get larger and larger. The monthly caps, perform the same solution as someone who mentioned relics. They're just spread out temporarily rather than in one large chunk. There's a few scenarios where the idea, though a very good baseline and start, will come back to the same results no matter what. This isn't so much of the design of it, but it's because of the one major flaw that cannot be patched in this game. The players.

Due to Weekly lock outs then free lot for older content we can already remove the veteran players who have ran this countless times and can go the rest of their days without seeing Scylla again. You could make it so the tomes give out something the others don't, but then eventually someone will complain and the vocal minority will request it be obtained alternate ways for those who can't play so much a month. To counter that you could make it so the items don't cost so many, but then you'll have them obtained quicker and their need will go down quicker. I'm not disagreeing with the idea completely, I do feel the older content should be respected a lot more. I just contradict myself so much that when I find an answer, there's a BUT right there. The trick is to take what the weight of the good is vs the bad and see which will come with a better outcome.

If you by chance happen to make so the need for the monthly cap is there, it will help. Still, you'll find those who burn through it and get tired of it. Mix that with someone who ends up finding the most time efficient way to cap, that will cut down the timeframe of "Anytime" and make it like the other things, you have X amount of time to stay with the masses.

I think a lot of it comes from the lack of horizontal progression mixed with how quickly you can clear these things. I remember when Sycrus came out, I did the quest and decided to seek for the last hour before work. I got into the last boss and..we won since they wiped a few times and knew what was killing them. I got my item for the week as healer and did it again sometime later that week for completion and was done.

You're right on the need for older content and new players should experience it like others did before them. The monthly cap is a great foundation to build up on.

I agree with you OP it is a shame that so much well-designed and fun content basically goes to waste.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with another currency although I can't say I find the tomestone system particularly fun or engaging. The main problem I can see with it is that it pushes people towards content they would have absolutely no interest in otherwise. People do feel 'forced' to run content over and over by the tome system and it's understandable that this can lead to resentment and clashes between players who just want to get an instance over as quickly as possible and those who unwittingly slow them down due to being new, running mainly for story or simply trying out an unfamiliar class.

Have you considered maybe extending the achievement system in a similar way to WoW? I ran a lot of older content there simply for the achievements, either for myself or for guildmates. Some had mounts tied to them (usually for a whole set of related achievements). Admittedly, a lot simply needed you to complete content once, but others were more quirky and ramped up the difficulty by asking you to do things without getting hit by a certain attack, or without killing adds etc. usually this would necessitate several runs. It was fun, no-pressure stuff that was generally done in a relaxed fashion.
I think their timewalking dungeons (old dungeons which are close to their original difficulty) also work in much the same way, with a mixture of achievements, toys, mounts, titles etc that people can work on at their own pace.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You're literally saying it's more important to not inconvenience 1% of the playerbase with an entirely self-imposed issue than fixing an ongoing problem. Wow. Just wow.

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If my desire to change this is gonna inconvinent the rest of the minion collectors or mount collectors, then lets just scrap the idea all together. But I'm going to still say, I do not want a savage tomestone with the ability to get relveant gear. godforbid I disagree with the idea.

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Originally Posted by asheryon

"find a pf or fc that helps you": i couldnt convince my fc to help me synced, imagine to convince random strangers, some like the challenge but they simply wont waste their time for no chance of reward for a stranger.
"the new tomestones would force players to do that content": not really, the idea of those new tomes would be to add a new alternate way to get things (not to eliminate the ones existing),
"use df": not too much people (waits of 2hs or more) and if it pops most of the people will be new.....disaster;

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To your first point, mainly need to find a group instead of just looking at PF. Just like a majority of people did for them when they were still relevant and what people still are doing for current raids.

To your 2nd point about tomes. For anyone that raids their going to abuse the crap out of this and it will kill current content faster as their gearing faster, which takes away from the current set of raids and dungeon. Thus killing the content faster.

Going back and doing content at it's "maximum" difficulty would be part having everyone learn the fight. As a majority of the difficulty when you're under geared is Party comp and knowing mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You're literally saying it's more important to not inconvenience 1% of the playerbase with an entirely self-imposed issue than fixing an ongoing problem. Wow. Just wow.

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Except it wouldn't inconvenience them at all and they'd more than likely be the only one's to actually benefit from this horrid idea. Doing things at the Max difficulty is touching raid tier.

TLDR: Old content is going to die no matter what due to the speed in which new content is released. Bringing in a new tome system to cheese your way out of current content doesn't help anyone or this cause.