A new tank with a question about combos.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Oh hmm. Maybe it's just a potency thing?

Monk's 1 2 3 combo of Bootshine (150) true strike ( 190 ) Snap Punch (180) = 520 potency
White mage could use Stone 3 in the same amount of cooldowns for (210) x 3 = 630 potency

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It would be 630x1.1 because of cleric stance. Greased lighting does take a bit as well if it falls off, so they won't have their multiplier.

Allot of the melee do have suboptimal aoe, where as healers do have that going for them. It's just strange to be in that party where you are fighting a single target and 2nd in line for hate, when your strength isn't single target (compared to melee dps.)

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Originally Posted by Lyth

In higher level content where you need to quickly gain aggro on a mob or tank swap, you'll want to try to be on the second step of your combo when you land your first hit in order to generate the maximum enmity in the shortest amount of time. RoH is too slow for an initial attack. Barring that, WAR and DRK have Overpower and Abyssal Drain respectively as less efficient alternatives that work in a pinch, if you didn't time your rotation correctly.

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It's worth noting you can use OGCDs to cancel Halone's animation and get the threat quicker, if you absolutely have to.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's worth noting you can use OGCDs to cancel Halone's animation and get the threat quicker, if you absolutely have to.

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Was tested a long time ago, doesn't actually work, damage/enmity from RoH registers at the same time with or without it. However, using an oGCD will give you a small amount of threat, so it can register some level of threat quicker. Your best bet in terms of no-combo snap aggro on something would be Rage of Halone -> Spirits Within, though in terms of raw enmity per GCD Flash is better (just doesn't do any damage). A better idea still would be to have a combo'd Savage Blade or RoH prepped instead, though that depends on how well you know the fight.

I mentioned animation cancelling earlier in my post. The big problem with animation cancelling on PLD in particular is that many of the limited oGCDs you could use either have lengthy animations themselves (i.e. Spirits Within) or long cooldowns (i.e. buffs), and it still ends up being slower than the alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I was just saying how I found it strange that healer aggro gets so high dpsing for no apparent reason. It's pretty common to steal a few adds from tanks in pulls, as well. I thought it was due to a punishment mechanic, but testing it, it is not. So I'm just wondering why it's so common for healers (in my experience) to be ahead of all the dps, even without healing, especially on AOE, but still frequently on single target. This thread was discussing enmity, so I was adding to it.
(The main point of this thread has been answered 3 times at least)

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Healers actually generate way more aggro through healing than they ever will through sheer damage. Having a HoT ticking while you're doing damage is a lot of aggro, as is burst healing on the tank when you drop out of cleric stance.

Healer enmity is lower than the potency. Yes lustrate will generate 300 potency worth of aggro but bio alone with generate 264. Bio II 385. So in the grander schemes the dps is what causes your aggro. I heal maybe twice a fight directly (being generous on that) normally selene + rouse is enough with all the filler time. But you're probably right that bio and lustrate stacking to 564 potency of enmity in 2.4 seconds as a combination to the issue..... buttt aggro like this happens when zero healing is done outside of embrace. o.o

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Healer enmity is lower than the potency. Yes lustrate will generate 300 potency worth of aggro but bio alone with generate 264. Bio II 385. So in the grander schemes the dps is what causes your aggro. I heal maybe twice a fight directly (being generous on that) normally selene + rouse is enough with all the filler time. But you're probably right that bio and lustrate stacking to 564 potency of enmity in 2.4 seconds as a combination to the issue..... buttt aggro like this happens when zero healing is done outside of embrace. o.o

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I believe it's 50% for healing, 100% for over healing.

It's not unusual for scholars to hit high threat from damage. Cleric stance essentially turns you into a slightly weaker summoner who has the same stat wants (Crit / Det) with the 10% boost on top of that from cleric.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I can sustain 1100+(on the a8 dummy I hit for 1200+ as an example) outside of party on SCH so in party it might be higher (maybe lol and obviously assuming I can just embrace and minimal moving.) So it happens a little too often. xD

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The minimum DPS check for say, MNK just to complete is 1800+
You're not even close to what actual DPS classes can pull.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Healer enmity is lower than the potency. Yes lustrate will generate 300 potency worth of aggro but bio alone with generate 264. Bio II 385. So in the grander schemes the dps is what causes your aggro. I heal maybe twice a fight directly (being generous on that) normally selene + rouse is enough with all the filler time. But you're probably right that bio and lustrate stacking to 564 potency of enmity in 2.4 seconds as a combination to the issue..... buttt aggro like this happens when zero healing is done outside of embrace. o.o

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You biggest offender is in fact WHM. The class has way more burst than any other healing classes. To illustrate, back in the STR meta, in A3S, my WHM would always 100% pull aggro off me with Medica 2, Regen and full DPS over 1k++ DPS. I was in Sword Oath tanking + NIN. After that happened a couple of times, my NIN just gave him Smokescreen and we had no other problem ever since.

SCH is the weakest to generate aggro: lower AOE heals, split with fairy, no Regen equivalent, DoTs takes way longer to put up decent amount of aggro against tanks. If your SCH manages to take tanks aggro, that's completely on the tank.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I mentioned animation cancelling earlier in my post. The big problem with animation cancelling on PLD in particular is that many of the limited oGCDs you could use either have lengthy animations themselves (i.e. Spirits Within) or long cooldowns (i.e. buffs), and it still ends up being slower than the alternatives.

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Halone's animation is much slower(even more for Butcher's Block), it only takes effect when numbers come in. I actually tried Halone > immediate Provoke during T13 lvl50 back then. Worked like a charm. Not too sure if it is still the same since nowadays you absolutely don't have to take aggro that fast, meaning Provoke into Halone works just fine.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's worth noting you can use OGCDs to cancel Halone's animation and get the threat quicker, if you absolutely have to.

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And no, OGCDs are there to supplement aggro until Halone's number takes effect.