Why refusing customization is a fallacy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, the main issue is that it is dismissed because it could create some form of discrimination.

So, in place of specs and exclusive bonus on items, we have strict vertical progression and complete homogenisation of jobs...and it's likely to continue.

---

The system doesn't need any work, it is already in place with classes.
Jobs= Specialization=Different from other jobs=job of same type exactly the same
classes=No specialization=No super powered skills= Variety of purpose skills

A class can heal, deal damage, tank, buff, debuff,etc which is no clear role.
A job usually has one or two roles but cannot fill all roles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilthas

Sorry, but going "the game is already unbalanced so its ok to make it much worse" isn't a good argument.

---

It's a better argument as "We can't do it because the game needs to keep its balance". At least my argument is not a blatant lie...
I hope you'll advocate for never adding another new job too, since any new jobs will either de ignored because it's the absolute best, or ended up discriminating an existing job because it's better in every way...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilthas

Just look at the ridiculousness of some of your arguments: "Who cares if it takes 15 minutes to clear a dungeon instead of 10?". The answer is actually "A whole lot of people care".

---

Yeah, I'm sure...pretty much the same people complaing about how higher crafting recipes "promotes" gil buying instead of actually spending time playing and leveling crafters to earn the stuff...

Don't worry, I'm sure will continue to gate dungeons in order to kill speedruns entirely. Then people will stop thinking that "faster" is automatically "better".

This will be the third thread where I post this idea, but if you do a risky speedrun resulting in severals death, your run is WORSE, even if it takes shorter time than a normal run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

The problem is, too many people just want to jump in and play without having to learn anything.

---

Basically, people don't want to have fun, they want rewards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sandpark

The system doesn't need any work, it is already in place with classes.
Jobs= Specialization=Different from other jobs=job of same type exactly the same

---

The problem is that everyone can play each job. If everyone can be the same all the time, it's no specialization.
If players could only level one tank, one healer, one caster, one ranged physical and one melee, you could say that each job is a specialization of a role.

Should have different skill trees.

I want my tanks to be legitimate DPS.

My paladin could wield a hammer if it wants to go DPS, a staff and shield if it wants to go healer, and typical sword and board for tanking.

I want my warrior to be a legitimate DPS, not just have a stance that slightly increases damage.

Basically, I want something like WoW. lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

you could spec you BLM a Frost Mage, doing around 20 or 30% less DPS than Fire Mage, but putting more debuff. Who will care when, by being full ilvl220, you'll be doing 40% more DPS than people will do now not being full 190 ?

---

You can't just make up numbers for this kind of stuff, where does this 40% come from? Skill does massively outclasses gear, I see players in i170 doing less dps than good players were doing in 130 at level 50 in FCoB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Back in 2.5, Relics Zeta were the absolute best weapons. Yet, people would still clear content without wearing one.

---

By that point all of the content had been cleared and nerfed with echo, no one really cared anymore.

I'm not really against customisation, it would definitely add another element to the game, but do you really think that players who can't learn a basic rotation will actually benefit from it? it will just make the gap between casuals and raiders even larger.

You're kidding right? Skill Trees are the most pointless customization I ever seen in my life. I can understand if we weren't allowed to change Jobs. But.... We are allowed to change Jobs on the fly so want to DPS? Switch to a DPS. Want to Heal? Go switch to a Healer. Want to Tank? Switch to a Tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

It's a better argument as "We can't do it because the game needs to keep its balance". At least my argument is not a blatant lie...
I hope you'll advocate for never adding another new job too, since any new jobs will either de ignored because it's the absolute best, or ended up discriminating an existing job because it's better in every way...

---

Apples and Oranges. I'd rather SE work into adding new jobs and keeping them balanced than work on trying to juggle the balance of several specs on each job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yeah, I'm sure...pretty much the same people complaing about how higher crafting recipes "promotes" gil buying instead of actually spending time playing and leveling crafters to earn the stuff...

---

This isn't apples and oranges. These are things that aren't even comparable.

But I will talk about crafting. Gathering and Crafting at the moment is complete and utter tripe.

Instead of being a relaxing and entertaining side-activity to support your battle classes, it's become a grindy activity only for hardcore crafters and gatherers. I already have a job, when I log in to FFXIV I want to have fun, not have a second job.

And yes, this inflated economy and all the obstacles that prevent players from being self-sufficient do indeed promote gilbuying.

u can customise your character just fine..the game has a little something called "able to play all jobs/classes on one character"

why in the world would SE lets say make Warrior a dps tree/talent/whatever when they can just add Viking job in the game, want a dps Paladin heres a Knight job, Monk tank no problem play a Black Belt etc

When people say you won't be taken because you are not the optimal spec is completely wrong. I have played numerous games where they have 3 tress sometimes I pick the worse one but that didn't stop me from doing content. SWTOR right now marauder/sentinel isn't doing so well as a dps and classed as the lowest currently because you can't do hybrid anymore I still picked it and I get all the content done in the game. ESO I was spec badly but I still got content done pretty easily. If you are not raiding why would it matter what spec you are? Also if you get kicked based on what spec you are in this game then you just need to look at the community and it just shows how bad it is. In SWTOR I enter a dungeon via group finder I don't get kicked for being a marauder we just go on continuing the dungeon. As OP said if you are not raiding it won't matter, when you DF it wont matter you will just continue the dungeon.

So many classes play the same in this game DRG is almost like MNK with Greased Lightning, MCH is just BRD Gauss Barrel/Wander's Minuet, Tanks are the same but 2 of them do bit more dps than the other, healers are all the same. The only job in this game which I will say is different is NIN. Honestly if they won't make trees at least make more interesting traits because the current ones are just lackluster and most are just copy and pasted over onto other classes. It's a cheap way of doing balancing because they just make everyone the same and too be honest its boring. This is the only big game to my knowledge which has no customization which sucks in my opinion. When i see people relate it to people not being taken its always FFXI any other game I have rarely seen this happen except in raid environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscreant

You can't just make up numbers for this kind of stuff, where does this 40% come from? Skill does massively outclasses gear, I see players in i170 doing less dps than good players were doing in 130 at level 50 in FCoB.

---

What ?! What does skill have to do in balance. I'm not comparing bad players to good players. I'm comparing players of equal skill with a far better average ilvl. You can't say that WHM heals far better than SCH because the SCH doesn't mind to summon his fairy ir just spam physick...
Now tell, me the difference wasn't huge when you went from ilvl100 to ilvl130.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscreant

By that point all of the content had been cleared and nerfed with echo, no one really cared anymore.

---

No, by that time, all the serious raiders didn't cared anymore. And I'm sure those people would love to min-max every spec. Believe it or not, most people haven't cleared Bahamut, even with echo, even now. And if those people want to clear it now, they could do it with whatever spec they chose, thanks to gear and echo. And those pople massivelu outnumbers the ones that care about min-maxing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscreant

I'm not really against customisation, it would definitely add another element to the game, but do you really think that players who can't learn a basic rotation will actually benefit from it? it will just make the gap between casuals and raiders even larger.

---

The gap was already "6 month" large in ARR, and in Heavensward, with Alexander Savage, I'm sure the gap will only go wider and wider.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilthas

Apples and Oranges. I'd rather SE work into adding new jobs and keeping them balanced than work on trying to juggle the balance of several specs on each job.

---

For what ? It's not like there's a lot of ways to play a tank, a healer, or a DPS. WAR and PLD were totally different in 2.0. And to keep balance, they gave WAR damage mitigation, pretty much like PLD. We have a new tank now, which...a reskinned PLD with even the exact same tank stance. MCH and BRD are exatcly the same, based on proc, AoE based buffs, and even a stance that add casting times to their skills.

You want to add another melee ? It'll have combos, like DRG and NIN ? Or stance like MNK ? Or positions like DRG, MNK and NIN ?

Do you realize why the egi-glamour was so well received ? Because every SMN will be able to chose what egi he'll use. Will it change something on their DPS ? No, but they'll like to have their favored egi by their side.

As for the "fun" part, why do we still have people playing NIN, DRG, and MNK while only one of them was the best at any given time ? Because they like the gameplay, even if their DPS is not the most potent one...because it's fun.

Until a fisher clears A4 Savage the jobs are unbalanced and therefore customization can't exist.