Bard or Machinists

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

divebombs/touching the wall (which will kill them as soon as they res and debuff them no less)

Also, what signature ' ^'

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"Huge" is not synonymous with "Only"

The signature that looks like a gnat walking in a figure eight... and I checked, it is actually an image in the section designated for your signature, which implies it is your signature... so you can stop trying to bluff :P

I will give you credit, when I first noticed it, it did fool me into thinking I had an insect on my screen... for about five seconds... then I got paranoid when I couldn't kill it... then I figured it out...

No one can answer your question because Machinist isn't out yet and no one has played them extensively enough to give a professional opinion about them yet.

With that out the way...it doesn't matter what you play. Since you're playing a DPS role it doesn't matter what you are as long as you can do good damage, dodge, and follow mechanics. Doing all of this will make it easier for your whm g/f, since she doesn't have to heal you or others as often.

Bard could help with ballad, but you shouldn't be using that in almost any situation as it's a big DPS hit. If you want to be a support to your g/f though, I'd go summoner. Super Virus and enhanced Eye 4 eye would at least help the tank take less damage and if for w/e reason she starts running out of mp, you can take over cures to a extent to buy time for her to regenerate MP as well as use resurrection if someone dies while your DoT's and pet keep pushing out a good portion of your damage, saving her from having to do it and allowing her to continue to focus on the rest of the party.

If you just want to play one of those two, well first comment still stands until heavensward is out for some time to see where Machinist stands in the grand scheme of things along with every other job since things are changing up

As a bard or machinist your primary role is DPS, so don't let the ability to restore MP/TP fool you into thinking that's their primary job. It IS a very important part of playing the class and if you do choose to be a bard don't be like others and never use ballad/peon because it hurts your DPS. Just from what we've been shown of machinist so far, they seem like a more "fire and forget" version of the bard: they drop their turrets down on a spot and let it do its thing while you continue to DPS. Meanwhile, Bard sacrifices their own damage to bring that utility to the party.

It's really up to you if you want the stronger MP/TP regens at the cost of lower damage when they're active vs. weaker MP/TP regens for a more consistent damage flow

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Originally Posted by Tharian

your source if you please...

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There's no new class abilities being added, only job abilties. No job skills can be crossed.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

I think we are miss-communicating here. When you are referring to "raid DPS" are you referring to the total combined DPS of the entire raid group/alliance or the individual Bard/Machinist? Because if it is the former then that is a horrible way to judge which of the two classes is a superior DPS class.

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Okay please enlighten me as to why you think this. I've seen people say this before because they haven't actually thought about it, or actually raided in an environment where comps matter and why they matter, but I'd love to see why you think this.

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Originally Posted by PinnyAerani

It's really up to you if you want the stronger MP/TP regens at the cost of lower damage when they're active vs. weaker MP/TP regens for a more consistent damage flow

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Technically, the mcn does lose dps. when their turrets are in support mode, they stop all dps. At this point, we do not have the information needed to know how big of a dps loss this is, but if things are balanced, mcn will have a slightly lower damage output than brd, which will make up for the added damage the turret provides. Just for the sake of argument, let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the turret does about 20% of mcn's total damage, that would about be the same effect as the damage debuff while singing.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

So, regardless of how you look at it, one additional set will lose you either mitigation or threat, because of the opportunity cost of doing a second maim inside of the maim buff window. You can make the case that you don't need the threat, but the cost is there.

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It may seem that way, but honestly, the extra 30% raw damage (20% from maim and 10% from eye) actually fairly well balances out the loss of a butcher block round. And if you can hold hate fine while keeping eye or path up, there is no actual loss. If you can't keep hate and maintain your chosen storm move, you are seriously undergeared. That is not a debate. that is a fact.

If I'm basing things loosely on the compiled and translated info from Blue Gartr, Bard looks to be keeping the theme of self/party buffs while Machinist (again, based only on currently translated skill notes that may change) is more about debuffing the enemy to deal more damage. Their support utility for TP/MP regen differs slightly and the implications of that need real gameplay comparing the the two before we can judge. Really, though, play whichever you like best! I'm not making my final decision on switching from my Bard main until I have hands on experience with Machinist.

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Originally Posted by PinnyAerani

As a bard or machinist your primary role is DPS, so don't let the ability to restore MP/TP fool you into thinking that's their primary job. It IS a very important part of playing the class and if you do choose to be a bard don't be like others and never use ballad/peon because it hurts your DPS. Just from what we've been shown of machinist so far, they seem like a more "fire and forget" version of the bard: they drop their turrets down on a spot and let it do its thing while you continue to DPS. Meanwhile, Bard sacrifices their own damage to bring that utility to the party.

It's really up to you if you want the stronger MP/TP regens at the cost of lower damage when they're active vs. weaker MP/TP regens for a more consistent damage flow

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But if the turrent wasn't giving tp or mp, it would be dpsing. It's exact same concept - the machnist will give up some of their potential dps to do their support.

You are correct - though. I think it's mistake to view Bard as a support class, it's a DPS class at it's core. Just happens to have a buffs that are often needed in progression content.

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Originally Posted by PinnyAerani

As a bard or machinist your primary role is DPS, so don't let the ability to restore MP/TP fool you into thinking that's their primary job. It IS a very important part of playing the class and if you do choose to be a bard don't be like others and never use ballad/peon because it hurts your DPS.

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Not sure I can agree with that. While You are primarily doing DPS, BRD is only brought along in party for one thing, songs. If BRD's did not have songs why would I not just pick up another caster or melee who does more damage than them? People need to stop looking at the word support as some sort of insult. BRD is a support DPS class and does a great job at it.

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Originally Posted by PinnyAerani

It's really up to you if you want the stronger MP/TP regens at the cost of lower damage when they're active vs. weaker MP/TP regens for a more consistent damage flow

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No one knows their current damage potential so how can you say that?

By the looks of it MCN is going to be the one holding all of the debuffs while BRD buffs the party.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...lI1VGvrnl0/pub