When is an i100 item better than an i110? - I.E. ST Hands

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Originally Posted by AIex

I literally posted in the post before your quote the priority #1 is to be a survivable tank which is inclusive to VIT and Defense... After a certain threshold though, they start showing less returns. What in the actual hell are you talking about lol? And when did I say i100 was BiS? All I'm saying is that it can be situationally better IE- you're the OT in T9 and just have to pick up golems but still need to dps

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It absolutely is not situationally better. According to your own words. Job #1 is to survive Job #2 is to dps

Why on earth would you add DPS to the slots in which your most efficient survival stats come from, IE the chest piece with Defense, Vitality, and parry.

If you wanted to add dps which I am in complete agreement with, you would add it via accesories, after accesories if you wanted more DPS you would switch your Main stat to STR instead of VIT.

What you absolutely would not do, is have fending accessories be specced into Vitality, and then try to add DPS through LESS STR and marginally higher secondary stats on your CHEST ARMOR. Least thought out suggestion I have ever heard.

And no you did not say i100 is BiS. But you should be considering that, because if you look at the gains from accessories over your measly gains from a main chest piece, you would see that you would end up with less overall DPS stat weights.
AND less survivability, by an extremely large margin. (let me re emphasize how important DEF is to a tank.... ITS THE MOST IMPORTANT.)

You absolutely must look at what you are saying in a Big picture format, because that chest piece is not better than the i110. I would also ask that you stop spreading such misinformation on the forums.

One more hole in your statement while VIT shows diminishing returns, DEF does not.

P.S. you havn't beaten t9 so how would you know

P.S.S not trying to be a jerk, but people shouldn't use math to try to tell people things that are not true, its damaging to the community.

If you fulfill job #1, you can start focusing on job #2. Which is more DPS. This is why STR accessories or i90 penta accs exist.

PS I've beaten t9 5 times with i90 legs/belt, with 30 STR allotment. I'm putting such a strain on my healers I'm sure. So mucht hat one of them went 0 MND allotment to prove a point.

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Originally Posted by AIex

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I totally agree that a secondary focus for tanks should be doing as much damage as they can, but I think you're overplaying the benefit of secondary stats a bit. I mean, If you're the MT only in tanking stance, and especially if you're a paladin, parry and vit are far more likely to increase your party's DPS than other stats. Most high level healer items don't have -any- int on them, so the difference between the DPS of a healer in cleric stance versus a healer not in cleric stance is absolutely enormous. Hell, my whm is ~i80, with around 220 int and 440 mnd, stone II's damage is almost exactly doubled in cleric stance.

Unless cleric stance is checked on each tick of a dot, the difference between aero/aero II reapplied with cleric stance on and dots applied with cleric stance off would probably be comparable to the difference between a paladin being in shield oath and a paladin being in sword oath over the course of a battle. Unless you severely outgear your healer, it's definitely worth making sure your gear maximizes their DPS before you start worrying about maximizing your own.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

If you fulfill job #1, you can start focusing on job #2. Which is more DPS. This is why STR accessories or i90 penta accs exist.

PS I've beaten t9 5 times with i90 legs/belt, with 30 STR allotment. I'm putting such a strain on my healers I'm sure. So mucht hat one of them went 0 MND allotment to prove a point.

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Would you wear full fending, and swap out that chest piece to increase your dps?

Also this isn't the point of this thread, I am in complete agreement about more DPS.

The point of this thread is that someone was asking if an i100 piece is better than an i110.

And my rebuttal was directed at the person suggesting that the i100 chest piece was ever better than the i110. Which it just isn't.


pssttt hey OP, everyone in this discussion is wearing the noct lorica..... just some food for thought. Even the guy telling you to wear the i100

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Originally Posted by MythToken

It absolutely is not situationally better. According to your own words. Job #1 is to survive Job #2 is to dps

Why on earth would you add DPS to the slots in which your most efficient survival stats come from, IE the chest piece with Defense, Vitality, and parry.

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It CAN be situationally better. By no means is it BiS for everything. It is just a viable option as OT DPS. Tell me how much Defense, Vitality, and parry you need as OT when nothing is hitting you most of the fight.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

What you absolutely would not do, is have fending accessories be specced into Vitality, and then try to add DPS through LESS STR and marginally higher secondary stats on your CHEST ARMOR. Least thought out suggestion I have ever heard.

And no you did not say i100 is BiS. But you should be considering that, because if you look at the gains from accessories over your measly gains from a main chest piece, you would see that you would end up with less overall DPS stat weights. AND less survivability.

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I already showed the calculation showing the numbers and that it's possible for them to be better for dps, please pay attention.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

You absolutely must look at what you are saying in a Big picture format, because that chest piece is not better than the i110. I would also ask that you stop spreading such misinformation on the forums.

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This isn't misinformation if it's proven mathmatically. Please prove to me otherwise that 5 STR > 27 DET+26SKLSPD. Also, you're entitled to your opinions and I respect that. I'm sure you're a good tank and all, but your theories on builds are not the only theories out there. Please respect that other builds can exist and other stats have value to different players instead of calling it "misinformation". All of what both of us are saying are OPINIONS. Thank you and this is the end of my replies to you

#endarguement

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Would you wear full fending, and swap out that chest piece to increase your dps?

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Yes, if it is a proven DPS increase. Because if 2 defense (and negligible parry and assuming acc isn't a problem) is causing you to wipe, you have bigger issues. Or should we wait until everyone is full i110 before doing any meaningful content?

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Originally Posted by AIex

This isn't misinformation if it's proven mathmatically. Please prove to me otherwise that 5 STR > 27 DET+26SKLSPD.

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In a Vacuum you are correct it is an incredibly slight amount of dps gain. For an incredible loss in survivability. The OP asking the question is something you need to consider. Your advice to him is terrible.

You yourself are not switching out those chest pieces for any fight, so don't troll.


OP, if you want to add DPS add STR accessories, and don't listen to these fools.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Yes, if it is a proven DPS increase. Because if 2 defense (and negligible parry and assuming acc isn't a problem) is causing you to wipe, you have bigger issues. Or should we wait until everyone is full i110 before doing any meaningful content?

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You are a liar, and you would never swap this chest out for a 2dps gain, over swapping out your accessories first, for greater gains.

And waiting for i110??? we are talking about having access to both and choosing one over the other, you may have beaten t9 but you will never slay the reading comprehension monster.


Item level = amount of points allotted


it makes no sense to take a loss of item level, when dps gains can be made much easier elsewhere, and you OVERALL stats are waaaayyy better.

The higher strength would also scale with your secondaries better on the Noct piece. Please take into consideration the OP and his intent, your advice is very bad for new tanks or aspiring tanks.


You guys go ahead and swap out your chest piece, and I will swap out accessories and have more dps than you.

>Ask opinion
>Get answer
>Call a liar
>Ignore the point

lol.

Also keep wasting your daily postcount double-post replying.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

it makes no sense to take a loss of item level, when dps gains can be made much easier elsewhere, and you OVERALL stats are waaaayyy better.

The higher strength would also scale with your secondaries better on the Noct piece. Please take into consideration the OP and his intent, your advice is very bad for new tanks or aspiring tanks.

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My advice to go 30 STR and have a healer go 0 MND is very bad for new tanks, yes. I would hope new tanks have enough brain cells to figure that much out.

It's also a matter of opportunity cost for progression. Body/leg soldiery pieces cost 825. If you can fill in the gap for "free" and it also happens to be a DPS increase versus the i100 alternative, you're getting more relative quality right now.

Which is not the point of this topic, I know, but new tanks will stagnate fast if all they focus on is "BiS" (which, if you're gearing for Parry, isn't BiS anyways).

Also consider everyone on this topic is wearing Noct Lorica because, surprise, they level other jobs and don't want to waste their weekly ST on a marginal sidegrade.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

And my rebuttal was directed at the person suggesting that the i100 chest piece was ever better than the i110. Which it just isn't.

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If you want to do more damage it is better. It simply is more damage. Are there other ways of doing that? Yeah and they will want to be explored first. But really, you're losing negligible numbers of defense stats for only marginal DPS gains with the swap: Swapping an accessory is a much larger change in HP than going i110 to i100 tank chests.

The way I see it is that, if you haven't upgraded the Noct Lorica and you don't need oils, the ST chest is something to get and will keep just fine until you can get a t9 chest. It's a good alternative to ever getting the Weathered Lorica in the first place.

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pssttt hey OP, everyone in this discussion is wearing the noct lorica..... just some food for thought. Even the guy telling you to wear the i100

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Lets be "realistic" here: This argument is over insignificant amounts of defense and damage. If you've already got the i110 it's just not a priority when you could be gettings oils or UATs or gearing alts.