Stop Raising Item Level and build foundation with Horizontal Progression first

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

Because it's a bad idea? Can imagine it now, primal X fight, must have these certain pieces of gear that are rare drops or gtfo. Content is gated by ilvl and players require minimum ilvl to join PF parties (no I dont PF, I have a static). Now you want to add even more gear checks to content?

---

I said best not required. People still do T6 in ilvl 90 gear and can clear it. However it does mean that an item from 3 patches ago is still viable and gives a reason to do that old content, because it gives you a bonus to killing a boss or completing a duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

So basically you want it like FFXI with macro gear swaps for practically every ability, but instead for every fight?. Thanks but noway thanks. That trash can stay in FFXI and those who want that can take that option of playing FFXI.

---

How dare people want the game to have a bit more complexity than "make this number be big (ilvl)". Having just base stats isn't going to fix the problem, because people will just get w.e is BiS (the biggest stats). You haven't really fixed anything at that point.

It is far easier to take a horizontal game and make it vertical then it is to take a vertical game and make it horizontal.

You'd have to do some serious work to how the game currently functions to make it horizontal and matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

Because it's a bad idea? Can imagine it now, primal X fight, must have these certain pieces of gear that are rare drops or gtfo.

---

It's a bad idea to play an MMORPG. Let me ask you as a question:

Do people largely accept you going into Primal X or Coil 1/2 undergeared? Hm? No? Well then, there's no difference. People already require you to have certain pieces or they'll want you out, that won't change just because of other gear addition lol. Meeting requirements is a standard of any kind of raiding in MMOs, that hasn't changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

How will this fit in with FF14?



Edit: this just sounds like ability bloat. An abiltly for every circumstance. The job system does this to an effect but does need tweaking.

---

1) Simply put, as the game is right now. it won't. The game was built around a linear progression model. It would need a third rebuild from the ground up at this point to properly implement it.

2) Its about giving the players choices on how they wish to advance and build. The job system does sorta /try/ this though severely limited and hindered. While yes the system does offer an ability for every circumstance, however I hope a player really enjoys spending endless amounts of money re-specing for each fight instead of how the system is intended for use. That being building for the character the player wishes to achieve. Another way of saying "there is no wrong way to play a character. Its in the build"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

It is far easier to take a horizontal game and make it vertical then it is to take a vertical game and make it horizontal.

You'd have to do some serious work to how the game currently functions to make it horizontal and matter.

---

However an expansion gives the perfect opportunity to do that. FFXI vanilla was different from FFXI: Rise of Zilart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magis

However an expansion gives the perfect opportunity to do that. FFXI vanilla was different from FFXI: Rise of Zilart.

---

I am unfamiliar with FFXI's expansions, did it go from Vertical to Horizontal or Horizontal to Vertical?

i think the game don't need only horizontal or vertical, but a mix of both, let's say they spend 2 years between each expansion, they do horizontal for 1 years and the next year they start by raise the progression level of the equipement before return to the horizontal.

for information, even blizzard with them last expansion try to reduce the major trouble of the veritcal progression, the exponential increase of the number.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Finally (since it's the most trivial), space. Those of us who play multiple classes and/or have all crafts/gathers maxed are already tight on armoury space. Carrying around multiple sets for just one class is simply unfeasible unless they give us more space to work with, and given their excuse of server stress, that likely won't happen - for free anyways.

---

Yeah, the inventory management system needs some changes to accomodate large amounts of gear. They might as well make the armory chest unlimited and let you put any kind of armor or weapons inside of it. We aren't going to vendor our raid sets if they can be used for vanity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrinn

One other thing most "horizontal progression" advocates fail to consider is that in a numbers game, there will always be a best choice. Always. Period. You can have all the choices you want but one will always be mathematically proven to be superior (even if it's by a trivial amount) to the others, hence "cookie-cutter builds." The best you can hope for is to have different playstyles (e.g. crit vs. SS) reach that same maximum but there's only so far you can go with that.

---

BiS arguers also seem to forget that majority of players dont even have BiS right now and the PF is still running. It's something to work towards for most people and I have never seen any PF insisting everyone having a HA weapon to beat any trial/coil to join so yeah, that argument isn't gonna convince me. Sure, BiS will always exist and if that horizontal BiS is somehow hard to attain, there will be other builds to settle for while working towards that set, which is kinda the point (unless SE went full stupid yet again like with what they did for hunts). It can even still work if paired with vertical progression. Example: implement a good skill mod ring for blms on ifrit ex at i90, allow the ilvl to be upgraded with drops from harder ilvl fire element bosses up to a certain point until some other type of skill mod bis turns up. This way some players would want to go back to older content to get their starting desired gear.

Inventory wise, I'm a multi class player and all my combat class is i90+ and I don't care. I'll make it work (and SE should help too with armory expansion and categorization). Honestly I don't see how the "simply throw away old gear that you played hard for to make space for some tome gear with higher ilvl that just got introduced" is any better of a mindset.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

It's a bad idea to play an MMORPG. Let me ask you as a question:

Do people largely accept you going into Primal X or Coil 1/2 undergeared? Hm? No? Well then, there's no difference. People already require you to have certain pieces or they'll want you out, that won't change just because of other gear addition lol. Meeting requirements is a standard of any kind of raiding in MMOs, that hasn't changed.

---

I've been playing MMOs since EQ1. All that time have come to conclusion that choice is an illusion. By making it require exact pieces of gear amongst a myriad of choices adds more limitations than options. Let's use FFXI as an example. on paper the options are hugely varied, in what job combinations you could have, what gear you could have, but that was an illusion enforced by the player base. You needed a certaiin job/sub job combo with specific gear more often than not, otherwise GTFO for someone who does. Grinding hours upon hours upon months for a specific item did not add any form of "complexity" it added another timesink.

Gear needed for Ilvl requirements is accesible by everyone. Which is one reason it's more succesful than FFXI.

Accesibility is the key to a succesful MMO in this time.

I stated that adding more options to gear with choice of secondary stas I would be fine with, adding specific gear for specific fights and/or abilities, newp.